www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West compromise on Papal primacy out says Bishop Hilarion

Russian Orthodox Bishop Hilarion has ruled out any compromise on orthodox with the Catholic church on Papal Primacy. I always thought it was papal infallibility the orthodox did not agree wiuth and not primacy, which several church fathers can attest to the Primacy of the Church of Rome. here is the article...

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=24233

I find the distinction he makes interesting - we're not looking for a compromise, but rather to understand what was the church's original understanding of primacy.

As to the issue with the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Pope of Rome meeting, all I can do is "sigh...".

Gordo

His Grace complains that the Russian Orthodox were only represented by 2 delegates while they out number the rest of the Orthodox faithful. If this is his complaint, then the Catholic delegates would have to out number the Russian delegates 10:1. (Approximately.)

One might suggest that Bishop Hilarion should read the full text of the services to Saints Peter and Paul. He should then read the full Church-Slavonic text of the services to Pope Saint Leo the Great.

Fr. Serge

I think Bishop Hilarion's beef is not on the number of delegates per autocephalous Orthodox Church.

The 14 autocephalous Orthodox Churches which sent delegates to the Belgrade meeting in 2006 (Bulgaria was absent and the OCA continues to be "not invited") had one vote per Church when Bishop Hilarion's motion was defeated 13 to 1.

Rather, Bishop Hilarion wants the ROC-MP, being the largest of the Orthodox Churches, to be the lead Church in the ecumenical talks and, as the chief delegate thereof, as the Co-Chair of the International Commission.

In effect, Bishop Hilarion wants to replace Metropoltan Ziz of the EP but the former was unsuccessful at the 2006 Belgrade meeting.

Let's see what happens in Bari this year!

Dear Friends,

Having read that article a couple of times, it is clear to me that what Vladyka is saying is that the Orthodox will never agree to be under papal jurisdiction as EC's are in any plan of reunion.

And he is absolutely right in what he says. The only time papal jurisdiction in the East could be justified is if and when an Eastern Church invited the Pope of Rome to get involved in a jurisdictional dispute that the Church or Churches could not themselves resolve.

Other than that, a reunited Church could see the Pope commemorated in the diptychs to celebrate his Primacy of Honour.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Alex

Bishop Hilarion is all against any Constantinopolitan c�saropapism, but I think he may feel differently about tsaropapism.

One might wish to read the article linked to in this thread.

If conciliarity is as valued as the Orthodox want us to believe, the ROC-MP "oficial" decision to forego the discussions on "Papal Primacy" at the International Commission's next meeting this Fall should not send shivers through the Catholic spine.

Bishop Hilarion's view, on behalf of the ROC-MP, is just but one of the 15 (or 16, if OCA is invited). I think the majority of the autocephalous Orthodox Churches will agree to pursue the matter and will deliver another blow to Bishop Hilarion's ambition of becoming the Co-Chair of the International Commission.

P.S.

My mistake! The 2007 meeting of the International Commission will be in Ravenna, Italy.

There is no problem with Papal Primacy of honor!

In other words if Rome would be willing to take the title of Ecumenical and play the same role Constantinople plays now, most Orthodox would be satisfied with this.

Dear Kobzar,

Why are you so anti-Russian? It is unseemly!

Neither the Administrator nor I are impressed!

Cheers,

Alex

Dear Borislav,

Yes, but you have to watch those popes lest they pull a fast one down the road . . .

Alex

If they try to "pull a fast one", we can pull an "excommunication"

...As we've proven in the past.

-----
Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

I'm more "anti-hypocrisy". You do det - eez rong; vee do eet - eez OK.

Ребята, давайте жить дружно.

Dear Kobzar,

O.K. I forgive you.

Not so sure about the Administrator though . . .

Alex