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Originally Posted by ByzKat
Dear John K,


The word "anaphora" means both the sacrifice and the sacrificial prayer, just as "Eucharist" means an act of thanksgiving, the prayer of thanksgiving, and the thanksgiving banquet.

This is not an accurate statement.

The word "anaphora" as it has always been used by the Church means a lifting up or an elevation, or the state of being elevated or raised up.

That is what it means Jeff.

The word also started being used as the TITLE of a suite of prayers that changed over the centuries in form, content and organization....the Anaphora of James, the Anaphora of Basil, the Anophora of the Twelve Apostles and so on.

The word "anaphora" has never really meant prayer at all, though eventually the word was employed in the titles that came to be used to reference a particular kind of prayer....a consecratory prayer....a prayer of offering or lifting up.

Now a title referencing something and a word meaning something are not at all equivalent things.

So the word "anaphora" did not then, nor does it now mean prayer.

So this false assertion becomes the opportunity to remove the focus of the liturgy from the oblation itself, to the prayers of oblation, which alters the whole theology and pneumatology of the liturgy or the eucharist.

That is unacceptable, and no amount of wiggling now is going to erase the fact, in public and in print, that Father David has insisted that till this very moment in time, the translators did not know what they were meaning when they translated "anaphora" as "oblation"....

Well that is just simply bunk.

Mary


Last edited by Elijahmaria; 06/07/07 02:37 PM.
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Originally Posted by ByzKat
Dear John K,

According to the Catechism:

"...we offer to the Father what he has himself given us: the gifts of his creation, bread and wine which, by the power of the Holy Spirit and the words of Christ, have become the body and blood of Christ."

"The Eucharist... is also a sacrifice of praise in thanksgiving for the work of creation..."

"The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the Church... With him (Christ), she herself is offered whole and entire."

So yes, the Body and Blood of Christ are offered, but not ONLY those.

The word "anaphora" means both the sacrifice and the sacrificial prayer, just as "Eucharist" means an act of thanksgiving, the prayer of thanksgiving, and the thanksgiving banquet. No one associated with the changes has suggested that the word "anaphora" simply means a prayer; it has a combination of meanings that includes "oblation", "Eucharistic prayer", and return/repetition/representation. Those who are complaining that the word has a single value are the only ones SAYING it has a single meaning, while those being accused ot teaching that it means "just a prayer" have insisted that the sacrifice and the prayer and inseparable.

As the Catechism points out, the Body and Blood of Christ are offered in the Liturgy (and shared and consumed), but it is not ONLY the Body and Blood of Christ that is offered in the Divine Liturgy. (In fact, the priest makes an offertory gesture and THEN asks God to transform the Gifts. Most Eastern theologians teach that there is no ONE moment, but an "entire moment" in which the sacrifice takes place - and the Anaphora is that moment.)

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

P.S. We have certainly lived in a century in which a desire to have clear concise answers, and embrace "real" (=Latin) Catholicism, sometimes led to answers so simple that they run counter to our own Liturgy. If hearing the prayers of the Divine Liturgy lead the faithful to better realize the scope of the Sacrifice (in spite of the facts that the prayers have been in our prayer books for decades) then I think at least SOME hearing of these priestly prayers is well justified!

Jeff--

Thanks for your explanation on this. And I agree there have been times where the Greek Catholic/Orthodox understanding of when the change occurs have been co-opted by the Latin understanding in an attempt to be real Catholics.

However, in looking at the glossary in the back of the new pew book, which I would assume would be the primary vehicle for teaching and understanding the RDL, the definition for "Anaphora" reads:

"the great prayer of thanksgiving at the heart of the Divine Liturgy; this prayer includes a remembrance of the saving command and acts of Christ and an invocation of the Holy Spirit."

There is no mention of anaphora as oblation or sacrifice. The primary definition, if I'm reading this glossary as I would a dictionary, is the first sentence: "the great prayer of thanksgiving at the heart of the Divine Liturgy;" If it truly means both, then why not print both meanings? The second sentence goes on to only describe the prayer.

If the glossary said: "a prayer prayerfully prayed" and something like: "the one sacrifice of Christ we lift up to the Father," that would be more in line with what is in the Catechism and is Catholic/Orthodox understanding. Can anyone see where my confusion lies?

John K

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The Roman Rite had the Calvinist NO Mass . Which replaced the true Roman rite Mass. Tridentine Mass.

Last edited by bkovacs; 06/08/07 05:53 PM.
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Thank God for Orthodoxy!!.

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