www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Just a few questions

I don't mean to be overly coy but I've tried comparing our Church to a well run organization I can find very little that they have in common. I don't understand why.

If I were to guess, we won't be recognizable in a decade. We have a seminary for reasons that escape me. We have more than one bishop for what reason? We have chased away our monasteries for what purpose? We are apparently not seeking union with other Eastern Catholic Churches to what end? Virtually all of the members of every bishops' council are there for what reason? We haven't had a church council since I've been a member. Why?

I don't see the point of our Metropolia. We don't do missions either in this country or anywhere else. Why? We aren't really serious about new vocations from this country. Why? We have a lovely liturgy book but we've spent most of our energies producing it, criticizing it, and trying to defend it and to what end? We have churches in areas that serve almost no one and we have mission areas that have no church and for that matter no priest to serve them. For that matter we aren't publicly discussing any alternatives to serving those areas. Why?

There is still much for me to learn but if I don't know a positive answer to at least some of these concerns I doubt that they exist. I'm not a pew sitter only and I do have some experience in running churches.

I couldn't design a better program for destruction than what we have. Yet, nothing happens. Nothing. Why? Why? Why?

CDL

Carson, it's not as bleak as you picture it. We've had 3 ordinations to the priesthood for the Eparchy of Van Nuys and at least one of them was "home grown" out here in the West. My parish has 2 deacon candidates who will finish their 4th year of studies this month.

We have an annual "Alive in Christ" ascetical bootcamp for boys and their dads in order to encourage priestly vocations. A couple of women from my parish have been to the Sisters of St Basil "Come and See" weekends.

We've had the Third Hour prior to Sunday Liturgy for at least 5 years, we've had Great Vespers for some of the Solemn Feast Days (St. George and St. Nicholas). We had Compline services for Fridays during the Philip's Fast for the past three years, and now our new weekly Sunday evening prayer group will conclude with Compline.

My point is not to boast of our efforts, but to give you hope. Don't expect the Church to be a well-run organization. The Apostles weren't a well run organization on Pentecost when they converted thousands. They were filled with the Holy Spirit. Call me naive, but I truly believe that when our parishes are filled with people on fire with the Holy Spirit, we will have an explosion of growth.

Sophia,

Thank you. I'm very open to any and all positive words. Those are good words indeed.

Where were the homegrown priests trained? I suspect that it was not at our seminary or was it.

CDL

Father Michael O'Laughlin, from Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Albuquerque, did train at SS Cyril & Methodius. He is now serving in our Denver parish.

Father Marcus Gomori was a theology student at CTU, but I believe he finished up his priestly studies at the seminary. He is serving in Las Vegas.

I know nothing about the third ordination.

Sophia,

That is good news in one area. I'm a little surprised that no one else has responded. I still contend that we don't need a seminary for two seminarians.

CDL

Carson, the third priest ordained is Fr. James Lane from our Anaheim parish. He's now assistant pastor in Albuquerue, helping Fr. Christopher Zugger.

"I still contend that we don't need a seminary for two seminarians."

How about for: 6 seminarians, 15 deacon candidates, 14 students taking classes or seeking a Masters in Theology, 45 cantors attending the MCI, training for bi-ritual priests, training for catechists. A sui iuris church must have its own seminary.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Carson,

I'm usually in agreement with you

but on this one I have to differ.

I understand what you are saying, that there's not a lot of bodies filling up the place and therefore why have the place. But what really needs to happen is to get to the root of the problem of why we don't have bodies in the place. Back in the day the seminary was full, now it isn't.

I think a lot of issues are in line with why the pews aren't as full as well.

It is not surprising that conservative and more fundamentalist religous groups, across the board, are, generally speaking, attracting more people than less conservative and fundamentalist groups. Orthodox Judaism is attracting more people for example than reformed for example. In Christianity, fundamentalist protestantism is growing compared to more liberal ones. In Islam, fundamental Islam is attracting more. Are there exceptions to the rule, probably, but generally speaking I don't think that I'm too far off base.

I guess the question is to what level of conservatism or fundamentalism do we need to go to. Could it be overdone? Of course. But the watering down and feminizing that is occurring here can be found elsewhere in our lives. In politics, TV, entertainment, music, etc. secularism can be found. I think (and this is just a hypothesis) that people are looking for a place that is standing firm and wants the us in the world to adapt to it rather than the other way around. And it is in conservative and fundamental organizations that people are finding this and thus flocking to. I don't know (and maybe someone can confirm) but I would guess that the Roman Cathloic Dioscese in Kansas City (it is discussed in the Town Hall) with the conservative bishop, is attracting more than average number of vocations. I don't think that it is a coincidence. One of the answers (along with evangelization, etc.) to turning this ship around is providing a conservative and authentic place for people to go, I don't see that happening overall currently and the results shouldn't be surprising to any of us.

And that brings us back to the topic of the seminary. If we provided a more conservative and authentic place for people, I truly believe that we would have more men in the seminary and we wouldn't have to question why we have the building.

If you have to ask me what more conservative means, I'm afraid you might not ever know. Our overall culture has to change. How is it possibly acceptable that 90%+ of our churches don't have vespers or matins? How is it possibly acceptable that to my knowledge, only one of our eparchies is ordaining married men? How is it acceptable that parts of our liturgy are deemed 'optional' and are excluded when they are anything but optional? Why is proskemedia shortcutted any some parishes and noone says anything about it? Fasting and confession aren't really part of our culture anymore as a church like in the past. I can go on and on. If the culture in our church is not serious about being authentic, then why would a sizable number of men be serious about the priesthood?


Monomakh

Where's this? For that matter why not share seminaries with other Eastern Catholic Churches even if we have three or four times as many students as you indicate? Seriously, where are these students you listed?

CDL

Monomakh,

The pews ought not to be filled because they ought not to be. It's part of the effects of the non-Eastern culture on us that we even have pews. I know that isn't your main point so I'll return to your point.

Christianity Today just published a fascinating article along the lines of what you've written. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/june/11.48.html

Sometimes Truth comes from unexpected places.

CDL

The training of Bi-Ritual priests seems to be the only way many parishes stay open. Is the Byzantine Catholic Church survival going to be dependent upon the availabilty of Bi-Ritual priests?

Ungcsertez ???

Until we get serious about proclaiming the Gospel I believe the percentage of Bi-Ritual priests is going to increase.

CDL

I think in Van Nuys, Parma and Passaic, Bi-Ritual priests are more numerous then "in house" vocations. But if the large number of permanent Deacons were ordained priests, there would be no shortage...

Ungcsertezs

(1) Are permanent deacons in the Eastern Catholic Churches eligible for ordination as priests?

(2) I think vocations to the priesthood is NOT the real issue in the Eastern Catholic Churches. This should occur correspondingly (and, perhaps, naturally) IF there is an increase in parish membership!

On the other hand, shortage of priests in the Latin Church, at least in the U.S., is REAL if we consider the now exponential increase of Latin Catholics in the USA. The US Latin Church now averages yearly approximately 1 million INFANT baptisms alone, over and above the average 150,000 yearly conversions and the "X" number of immigrants. These live additions are outstripping deaths resulting in the net increase of the Catholic general population in the U.S. annually.

So, before we can even talk about shortage of priests in a given Eastern Catholic Church, we should consider stuffing such Church to the gills.

Why wouldn't they be eligibile?

Ungcsertezs