|
1 members (bluecollardpink),
370
guests, and
90
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,522
Posts417,629
Members6,175
| |
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 166
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 166 |
Its rather ironic that under Sadaam Christianity was a relatively protected religion from the Islamic radicalist and very few acts of violence were comitted against Christians and if that happened it went punished. The Christians in Iraq enjoyed freedom of religion under Sadaam something rare in the middle east now that his regime is gone which is admittedly evil Christians there are now persecuted like most other places in the middle east. And persecutors of Christians seem to go unpunished something that never hapened under Sadaam. Something is definitely wrong with the post war planning in Iraq and the protection of the Christian minorty should have been a consideration it seems to be not even to be given any thought by the Bush admin I am sure the Pope will have some suggestions to give George Bush on the situation but for many Christians it already to late as they have fled the country or are dead by now.
Last edited by tobit; 06/05/07 06:06 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,191 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,191 Likes: 3 |
Mr. Reagan concluded that the insanity that has overcome so many in the Middle East was beyond our capability. He may have been right. It does seem that some people can only be controlled through brute force. At least that is what Saddam seemed to believe.
The Christian recoils from that. The conflictedness in our souls stems from our desire that peace and kindness reign in everyone's heart and brutality ought to be opposed wherever it is found. I think that impulse is exactly correct.
Until Christ shows us a way to reclaim these lands and these people for His Kingdom and we obediently follow that way I simply have no idea what can be done. I don't believe all the planning or force or all of our ignoring of the situation makes much difference one way or the other.
The answer lies with the Christian message and the reality of Christ living and reigning.
I thank God for the faithful witnesses. I ask these courageous martyrs to pray for all of us.
CDL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440 |
And this is why I opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning....by driving the Christian element out of Iraq, how can we honestly expect to stabilize Iraq. Poland was converted by Catholics-praying the rosary and sacrificing in conjunction with Thatcher and Reagan and not vice versa. With the Catholics, and Orthodox fleeing Iraq who is going to offer the sacrifices and prayers to convert and save the country/region? Dear Holly, I know that the reason the Pope was against the war was because it would endanger the Christians living there. They were protected by Saddam Hussein. He was a Sunni, and the one's that are now in the majority are Shia's, the same as the Iranians. I for one, never really believed that there were weapons of mass destruction. Say it's my sixth sense, but somehow I couldn't believe that with all the sanctions, and First Gulf War, that they would have been able to make them. He was a tyrant though, and we encouraged the Shia's to fight him after he was defeated during the First Gulf War, and he retaliated on them harshly. In a way we owed them something. Sometimes though, doing the honorable thing, (as we are now doing), can bring a catastrophy. I think of how the Czar of Russia did the honorable thing, and honored his treaty with Serbia by entering WW I. It shocked the German Kaisar, because he did not expect it. Not only did the Czar and his family suffer dearly, but the whole nation did for decades afterwards. Not to mention the 20,000 men in Europe that died each and every day at the front lines. Yet as far as Iraq is concerned, I have heard an Iraqi general say that the weapons of mass destruction were taken by Russian planes to Syria. That part of the world though, tells lies quite readily, (different culture), which is why they always miscontrue our actions. One can only judge others through what they themselves are and how they think...so of course, they perceive all our actions as being deceptive. I believe that the weapons of mass destruction merely added to the fuel of going to war and trying to change that part of the world. It took over a century to democratize Europe, and it took two world wars in order for that to be accomplished. Had Europe not been devasteted by WW II, I doubt that democracy would exist there today, nor would the common market. The reason I mentioned it, was because Pres. Bush hoped that he would stop a similar devastation before it occurred. Whether it did or not, we will never know. We can only know something after it occurs, never if it would have occurred had we not stepped in to stop it. But that's neither here nor there. The Christians might not be there to pray, but we here can pray for them. Or who knows, maybe they are praying even more ardently for their homeland, now that they are not living there. The poor Cubans are still praying to go back, and who knows, someday maybe they will. I think though if people would pray more for the Muslims, who were unfortunate to be born into such a faith, God might look upon us all more favorably. God Bless, Zenovia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133 |
I find the fact that people blame the USA for Islamic persecution against Christians despicable. Kind of reminds me of Ron Paul's statement that 9/11 was our fault.
As of Weapons of Mass Destruction. SADAM USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS ON THE KURDS. Chemical weapons are WMD's in my book.
Sadam killed HUNDREDS of thousands of people in the past 10 years. Saying that Iraq was better in any way before the US invaded is just plain wrong. Just because you don't read about torture, rape and mass murder in the New York Times doesn't mean that it is not going on.
Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 06/05/07 05:51 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,177
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,177 |
And we've always known about Saddam's WMDs. All we need to do is dig around Washington DC and London and look for the receipts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930 |
The Chaldean Church immediately mourned for them as martyrs. Benedict XVI prayed for them from Rome. Father Ragheed was one of the most limpid and courageous witnesses of the Christian life in a country among the most afflicted. He was born in Mosul 35 years ago. After graduating from the local university with an engineering degree in 1993, from 1996 to 2003 he studied theology in Rome at the Angelicum, the Pontifical Saint Thomas Aquinas University, pursuing a license in ecumenical theology. Apart from Arabic, he spoke fluent Italian, French, and English. He was a correspondent for the international agency �Asia News,� of the Pontifical Institute for Foreign Missions. The day after his martyrdom, �Asia News� published this portrait of him: "The Eucharist gives back to us the life that the terrorists seek to take away" http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=145921&eng=y
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576 Likes: 1 |
May the Christian Martyrs of Iraq be remembered with an ikon, memory eternal!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090 Likes: 16
Global Moderator Member
|
|
Global Moderator Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090 Likes: 16 |
Some excerpts from an article on a Chaldean news site, highlighting Father Ragheed's ties to Ireland and his conscious decision to return to Iraq after his studies in Rome: ...
Fr. Ganni, aged 35, was a frequent visitor to Ireland where he worked at Lough Derg shrine in Donegal, was also an engineer. (As the rector of the Irish College,) Mgr Liam Bergin, said Fr Ganni always knew he was working in a dangerous place but had insisted that he belonged in Iraq where he often recalled that God had called Abraham.
Fr. Ganni is remembered at the Irish College in Rome, where he trained for the priesthood "as an exceptionally outgoing person, the sort of person that if you meet once you remember." "Even when he had just arrived and couldn't speak English or Italian he still managed to communicate with people here at the college" the rector Liam Bergin said.
Phone calls and emails of condolence have been flooding in from those who knew the 35 year old priest. �This tragic violence has created ripples far and wide. Even the Irish president who was in Rome at Sunday's canonization had met Fr. Ganni in Ireland and remembered him� Bergin continued.
During his seminary studies Ganni couldn't return to Iraq during the holidays so he often spent that time in Ireland. For that connection but also for his extrovert nature he was nicknamed �Paddy the Iraqi�. He had recently been given permission by his bishop to come to Rome to study for a doctorate in ecumenism.
�I spoke to him a week ago� said Bergin, noting that the young Chaldean priest was conscious of the dangers he faced in Iraq, the risks that non-Muslims could be �seen as friends or collaborators of the invading forces� but he also felt that �as a priest he would be less likely to suffer than the faithful.�
In a telegram on Monday to the Chaldean Bishop of Mosul, the Vatican said that Pope Benedict XVI was "deeply saddened to learn of the senseless killing of Ragheed Aziz Ganni, and subdeacons Basman Yousef Daoud, Ghasan Bidawid and Wadid Hanna."
"He [the Pope] prays that their costly sacrifice will inspire in the hearts of all men and women of good will a renewed resolve to reject the ways of hatred and violence" the statement continued.
Fr. Ganni is survived by his parents in Mosul and at least one sibling, a sister who fled to Australia because of the war in Iraq. This morning in Rome, President Mary McAleese paid tribute to Father Ganni whom she had met at Lough Derg.
Archbishop Sean Brady, who celebrated mass to inaugurate a chapel at the Irish Embassy to the Holy See, said the Irish College community was deeply shocked by the news of the deaths. He said Fr Ganni had told him that his duties as a priest were to the Iraqi people in their hour of need.
The Church of the Holy Spirit where Fr. Ganni and the deacons served the Iraqi community, The church known for feeding the hungry, taking in orphaned children, and assisting widows had been bombed and vandalized in the past. Fr. Ganni had been threatened by Islamic militants. The three deacons had been accompanying the priest constantly, hoping to protect him.
... Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10 |
Dear Neil,
This is very disturbing. Truly, where is the outraged coverage one should be hearing? Or have we become so weary of war coverage, that they have become just more 'casualties of war'.
How can Christian voices rise up?
Can they, however, be heard--when Muslim is also killing Muslim by the dozens daily?
Just some random, scattered and frustrated thoughts....
Lord have mercy!
Lord, save thy people and bless thine inheritance!
Alice
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,225 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,225 Likes: 1 |
From Vultus Christi by Fr. Mark...
Words of Father Ragheed, Priest and Martyr
Father Ragheed Gannis, 34 years old, was killed by gunfire after having celebrating Holy Mass on Sunday in the Church of the Holy Spirit in Mosul, Iraq. Three subdeacons were killed with him. Hours later the bodies were still lying in the street because no one dared retrieve them. On May 28, 2005 Father Ragheed spoke at a prayer vigil during the Eucharistic Congress in Bari, Italy.
"Mosul Christians are not theologians; some are even illiterate. And yet inside of us for many generations one truth has become embedded: without the Sunday Eucharist we cannot live."
"This is true today when evil has reached the point of destroying churches and killing Christians, something unheard of in Iraq till now."
"On June 2004 of last year, a group of young women was cleaning the church to get it ready for Sunday service. My sister Raghad, who is 19, was among them."
"As she was carrying a pale of water to wash the floor, two men drove up and threw a grenade that blew up just a few yards away from her."
"She was wounded but miraculously survived. And on that Sunday we still celebrated the Eucharist. My shaken parents were also there.
"For me and my community, my sister's wounds were a source of strength so that we, too, may bear our cross."
"Last August in St Paul Church, a car bomb exploded after the 6 pm mass. The blast killed two Christians and wounded many others. But that, too, was another miracle�the car was full of bombs but only one exploded. Had they all gone off together the dead would have been in the hundreds since 400 faithful had come on that day."
"People could not believe what had happened. The terrorists might think they can kill our bodies or our spirit by frightening us, but, on Sundays, churches are always full. They may try to take our life, but the Eucharist gives it back."
"On December 7, the eve of the Immaculate Conception, a group of terrorist tried to destroy the Chaldean Bishop's Residence, which is near Our Lady of the Tigris Shrine, a place venerated by both Christians and Muslims."
"They placed explosives everywhere and a few minutes later blew the place up. This and fundamentalist violence against young Christians have forced many families to flee. Yet the Churches have remained open and people continue to go to mass, even among the ruins".
"It is among such difficulties that we understand the real value of Sunday, the day when we meet the Risen Christ, the day of our unity and love, of our [mutual] support and help."
"There are days when I feel frail and full of fear. But when, holding the Eucharist, I say 'Behold the Lamb of God Behold, who takes away the sin of the world', I feel His strength in me. When I hold the Host in my hands, it is really He who is holding me and all of us, challenging the terrorists and keeping us united in His boundless love."
"In normal times, everything is taken for granted and we forget the greatest gift that is made to us. Ironically, it is thanks to terrorist violence that we have truly learnt that it is the Eucharist, the Christ who died and risen, that gives us life. And this allows us to resist and hope."
May they rest in eternal peace...
james
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704
Bill from Pgh Member
|
|
Bill from Pgh Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 704 |
"Mosul Christians are not theologians; some are even illiterate. And yet inside of us for many generations one truth has become embedded: without the Sunday Eucharist we cannot live." http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0703209.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090 Likes: 16
Global Moderator Member
|
|
Global Moderator Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,090 Likes: 16 |
Posthumous letter of a Moslem friend to Father Ragheed https://www.byzcath.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1054&Itemid=49May God grant many years to Professor Mokrani Another Chaldean priest kidnapped in Baghdad http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=9477&size=APrayers for the safety and release of Father Hani and the four youths accompanying him Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 403
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 403 |
How awful to learn of this horrible act done to a holy priest priest and the holy deacons. May Our Lord and Our Holy Theotokos bring them to their Eternal Reward with them in the Heavenly Kingdom where they may be participate in the Heavenly Mysteries! May the Lord Have Mercy on all Victims of Violence and may the Virgin of Perpetual Help be their help and their protection!
Eternal Memory, Eternal Memory, Eternal Memory!
John Doucette
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,133 |
Reading things like this makes me want to do very UN-CHRISTIAN things, like pick up a weapon and shoot the people who did this.  Vechnaya Im Pamyat'
Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 06/07/07 10:49 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10 |
Reading things like this makes me want to do very UN-CHRISTIAN things, like pick up a weapon and shoot the people who did this. Vechnaya Im Pamyat' Careful, Subdeacon Borislav...such logismoi are cause for confession!  Do not entertain them, but say the 'Jesus Prayer'. Perhaps the Chaldeans should go underground and secret until they know they are safe, just as Christians had to do throughout the era of communism and during the Ottoman times. No one can snuff out or kill the lamp of faith in one's soul and heart! My humble prayers for these brave and suffering people. Troparion to the Cross: Save, O Lord, Thy people, and bless Thine inheritance; grant Thou victory to Christians over enemies; and by the power of Thy Cross do Thou preserve Thy commonwealth. In Christ, Alice
|
|
|
|
|
