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it must be nice.... Saints of Carpatho-Rus.. ,about most of them I heard for the first time
, 24 June is Sunday of the Saints of ukrainian nation in our church

I can't understand why the Synod of the UGCC decided on the 4th Sunday after Pentecost for "All Saints of Ukraine". What's wrong with the 2nd Sunday like the Orthodox? Also, I have yet to find a complete UGCC service for this feast, only a butchered version from the Basilians. Then again, no services have been written for the New Martyrs - many don't even have a troparion. It's not as if their canonisations were a surprise - there was plenty of time. Then again, if most parishes have never heard of Vespers or Matins, maybe the powers that be see it as a waste of time...

Dear Andriju,

Excellent point! It was St Peter Mohyla who established the Feast of All Saints of Little Rus' or "Malorossiya" which did not at that point have the pejorative meaning it does today. including all the saints of the Kyiv Caves Lavra in the 17th century and appointed this to be observed on the Second Sunday after Pentecost. He also had printed the special Canon and Moleben to "All the Saints that have shone forth in Little Rus' to be sung by anyone at any time (don't know if that is a good translation - doesn't sound like it does it?).

From what I understand, there are two reasons why the synod decided on the 4th Sunday after Pentecost for this feast. One was to maintain that bridge of separation between Orthodox and EC's (some on the synod are horrified that UGCC parishes don't mind commemorating Orthodox saints on that day!) and the second one was so that this feast doesn't interfere with the celebration of the feasts of Christ the Lover of Mankind and Corpus Christi.

Now you know.

Alex

Dear Bojko,

You raise a fascinating issue when you mention "Saints of our nation."

The way in which the national, Particular Churches decide on who is to become a member of their national Choir of Saints is most interesting.

Certainly, there is the fact that a given Saint was an ethnic Ukrainian, for example. In that case, there were many ethnic Ukrainians who were Saints who lived in other countries as missionaries etc.

Very often, it is difficult to determine the ethnicity of "suspected Ukrainian saints." But I've done some work in that area that is on the website "Ukrainian Orthodoxy" (that I no longer write for since there are Orthodox Ukrainian brothers who are upset that I dare write for an Orthodox site as an EC and haven't converted to Orthodoxy yet).

Another "rule" for inclusion into a given national, Particular Church Choir of Saints is that a given saint who is NOT an ethnic Ukrainian (or other nationality) lived and died in Ukraine or for the Ukrainian Church.

Such are the 12 Greek builders of the Caves Lavra in Kyiv, St Athanasius the "Sitting Patriarch" of Lubensk and numerous others.

Anyone receiving the tonsure at the Lavra is part of the choir of Saints of the Lavra - and this would also include St Seraphim of Sarov, tonsured at the Lavra and then advised by the Ihumen(a) St Dositheus(a) to go to Sarov.

Recently, a Roumanian Saint became the latest additions to the Kyivan Caves Lavra Choir, St Pachomy Romansky, who was a hesychast in the Paisian tradition and who asked to be buried at the Lavra.

The Metropolitans of Kyiv were largely of other nationalities and probably our greatest, St Peter Mohyla, was a Moldo-Wallachian prince and heir to the throne of Moldavia, a former Kozak officer who was so loved by the Kozaks that he was presented as THEIR candidate for Metropolitan of Kyiv, Halych and all Rus'!

Ukrainian Saints who went to Siberia would often bring back home the cult of Siberian Saints who converted as a result of the Kyivan missions there (e.g. St Basil of Mangazea whose cult was brought to Kyiv by St Paul Koniuskevich, Met. of Tobolsk who was tonsured in the Kyivan Caves Lavra and who is enshrined there as well).

The choir of the Chinese Orthodox martyrs of the Boxer Rebellion are also part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Choir of Saints since the mission in China was led by St John Maximovych of Siberia who translated the Liturgy into Chinese (and whose direct descendant, St John Maximovych of Shanghai and San Francisco, celebrated frequently).

St Innocent of Japan took his name and inspiration from the Ukrainian Orthodox missionary, St Innocent Kulchitsky etc. etc.

On the feast of All Saints of Rus'-Ukraine, I think we should be aware of a great cloud of witnesses that have sprung from the Christian well-spring of the holy Church of Kyiv, the New Jerusalem and a great Light of the East.

"We magnify you All Saints that have shone forth in our land!"

Alex

Dear Domilsean,

In fact, St Alexis the Confessor of Carpatho-Rus was supported in his Orthodox mission by the Kyivan Caves Lavra.

Even if it can be shown that Carpatho-Rus had no prior connection to the Lavra (that would be a stretch to determine that though), there are at least a number of Carpatho-Rus' saints who have that connection, including St Theodora of Sihla from the Carpathian region.

Alex

St Theodora of Sihla was from Bukovyna and Romainian speaking.

Thank you so much for a lesson of history about our Saints who came out from our Motherland and come in , by they are all ours
I feel so praud

I knew of the latter, but not the former.

The above explanation speaks volumes...

As an aside, my priest went to Transylvania this May and, amidst other things, brought back a magazine with an article about the canonization of St. Pahomie (who was originally from Transylvania). My priest mentioned to me that some Romanians accuse the Ukrainians of being "relic hogs" since they won't give St. Pahomie back to the Romanian Church!

Dave

Dorohi Oreste, Bojku, Andriju ta Davide,

Slava Isusu Khrystu!

Yes, St Theodora or "Bohdanna" as she was called, was a Bukovinian saint and her relics are now in Roumania.

In terms of relic-hogs, the Roumanians have ALWAYS received the relics of their Saints, even though it was the wish of those Saints to be buried in Ukraine or the Kyiv Caves Lavra.

The same thing applies to the Belarusyans who asked for and received the relics of St Euphrosyne of Polotsk (who herself wished to be buried in the Caves Lavra). The fact that the Belarusyans have ethnic Ukrainians in their national Choir of Saints, like St George Konissky, - well, that doesn't get Ukrainians all in a twist, does it?

In fact, this was the last will and testament of St Pachomios theh Roman.

Ukrainians are often lectured about being too nationalistic - perhaps it is too galling for the Roumanians to realize that one of their own preferred to be among the Saints of the Lavra than anywhere else on earth. In addition, St Peter Mohyla was a Moldo-Wallachian who dedicated his entire life and fortune to the Kyivan Church, the "Mother of the Churches of Rus'" as he said.

The fact that the Roumanians have adopted in full St Paisius Velichkovsky, calling him "St Paisius of Roumania" - that's somehow NOT saint-poaching is it? And Paisius always signed his name "Native of Poltava."

In addition, Roumania has always considered Bucovina and Bessarabia to be its territory.

Well, they are not.

And I have Roumanian ancestry aplenty.

Alex

Slava na viki!

While we may feel a link to a particular saint because the saint lived in or was born in a certain region, I think we can all agree that saints are now Citizens of Paradise, the homeland which we all (should) desire!

Saints often built bridges between nations and cultures through their ministries and travels. St. Paisius is a great example of this. One example would be at his monastery, where the readings from the Fathers in the trapeza were read in Greek, Slavonic and Romanian in rotation due to the presence of Greek, Slav and Romanian monks--all in the same monastery, all under the same spiritual father.

Some food for thought!

Dave

Dear Chtec,

Yes indeed! But St Paissy always underlined the pride he felt in his own Ukrainian roots as is understood!

He numbered Chalcedonian Armenians among the ten ethnic groups that represented the cultural backgrounds of his followers.

He fell in love with the Roumanian language, culture and Church and one of the spinoffs of his work in Roumania was that the Roumanian Church adopted the cult of Sts Vladimir and Olha, Sts. Boris and Hlib AND of the Choir of Saints of the Kyivan Caves Lavra (and also St Dmitri of Rostov) - all venerated highly by St Paissy Velichkovsky.

The national saints continue to serve an important role with respect to a deepened evangelization - they are "with us" in a way only they can be and their teachings are often adapted to the way of life and mentality of the people they originated from.

It is a very human, but poignant, thing to think that one's own national saints are so close to us that they come to our aid first and ahead of any others.

St Paissy Velichkovsky was both a proud Ukrainian and someone who shared the Patristic treasures of the Jesus Prayer that renewed several other national Orthodox Churches.

No wonder other Churches scramble to glorify him and to count him among their ranks of saints.

Alex