|
3 members (Erik Jedvardsson, 2 invisible),
553
guests, and
84
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,511
Posts417,527
Members6,161
| |
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,268
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,268 |
Why wouldn't they be eligibile?
Ungcsertezs In the Latin Church, Permanent Deacons (married and unmarried) are just that: permanent deacons! They are not eligible for priestly ordination. Only the transitional deacons (unmarried, of course) are eligible; those who are on their last year(s) of seminary training. Is the rule different in the Eastern Catholic Churches? Can the Forum's Father Deacons clarify this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 709
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 709 |
In the Latin Church, Permanent Deacons (married and unmarried) are just that: permanent deacons! They are not eligible for priestly ordination.
...
Is the rule different in the Eastern Catholic Churches? Can the Forum's Father Deacons clarify this? I'm not a Father Deacon, and I don't even play one on tv. However, I don't think there IS such a thing in the Eastern church as a permanent deacon. And why should there be? The permanent diaconate limits a man's call to serve: It says that there is no chance that the Lord might call him to the priesthood at a later time. It fails to recognize that a man's call can change over time, through spiritual growth, deeper discernment, and change of life circumstances. I am guessing (pure guess, no research involved) that the West invented the permanent diaconate at around the same time it forbade married clergy. Does anyone know for sure?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373 |
OK, call them married deacons. They would still be eligible for ordination, but in the Ruthenian Metropolia, there is a reluctance to ordain married men to the priesthood.
Ungcsertezs
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 856 |
Actually, the permanent diaconate in the Latin Church came about as part of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council - Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church), III, 29: 29. At a lower level of the hierarchy are deacons, upon whom hands are imposed "not unto the priesthood, but unto a ministry of service."(74*) For strengthened by sacramental grace, in communion with the bishop and his group of priests they serve in the diaconate of the liturgy, of the word, and of charity to the people of God. It is the duty of the deacon, according as it shall have been assigned to him by competent authority, to administer baptism solemnly, to be custodian and dispenser of the Eucharist, to assist at and bless marriages in the name of the Church, to bring Viaticum to the dying, to read the Sacred Scripture to the faithful, to instruct and exhort the people, to preside over the worship and prayer of the faithful, to administer sacramentals, to officiate at funeral and burial services. Dedicated to duties of charity and of administration, let deacons be mindful of the admonition of Blessed Polycarp: "Be merciful, diligent, walking according to the truth of the Lord, who became the servant of all."(75*)
Since these duties, so very necessary to the life of the Church, can be fulfilled only with difficulty in many regions in accordance with the discipline of the Latin Church as it exists today, the diaconate can in the future be restored as a proper and permanent rank of the hierarchy. It pertains to the competent territorial bodies of bishops, of one kind or another, with the approval of the Supreme Pontiff, to decide whether and where it is opportune for such deacons to be established for the care of souls. With the consent of the Roman Pontiff, this diaconate can, in the future, be conferred upon men of more mature age, even upon those living in the married state. It may also be conferred upon suitable young men, for whom the law of celibacy must remain intact.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,268
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,268 |
In the Latin Church, Permanent Deacons (married and unmarried) are just that: permanent deacons! They are not eligible for priestly ordination.
...
Is the rule different in the Eastern Catholic Churches? Can the Forum's Father Deacons clarify this? I'm not a Father Deacon, and I don't even play one on tv. However, I don't think there IS such a thing in the Eastern church as a permanent deacon. And why should there be? The permanent diaconate limits a man's call to serve: It says that there is no chance that the Lord might call him to the priesthood at a later time. It fails to recognize that a man's call can change over time, through spiritual growth, deeper discernment, and change of life circumstances. I am guessing (pure guess, no research involved) that the West invented the permanent diaconate at around the same time it forbade married clergy. Does anyone know for sure? The 3 Ranks of Sacred Order in the Church are: Episcopacy (Bishops), Presbytery (Priests), and Diaconate (Deacons). The Latin Church restored the Permanent Diaconate pursuant to Vatican II as aforesaid and by his Apostolic Letter "SACRUM DIACONATUS ORDINEM" on June 18, 1967, Pope Paul VI issued the "GENERAL NORMS FOR RESTORING THE PERMANENT DIACONATE IN THE LATIN CHURCH." We did NOT invent the diaconate. The order of deacons was extant in the early Church. The discipline of priestly celibacy was followed by the Latin Church way, way before the restoration of the Permanent Diaconate.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 487
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 487 |
However, I don't think there IS such a thing in the Eastern church as a permanent deacon. If currently you are married and you become a deacon in the Eparchy of Passaic or the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh you're pretty much a permanent deacon  I think that Van Nuys is the same but I'm not sure. I know that in Parma our Tradition of ordaining married men is actually being followed, kudos to Bishop John. Monomakh
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,268
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,268 |
However, I don't think there IS such a thing in the Eastern church as a permanent deacon. If currently you are married and you become a deacon in the Eparchy of Passaic or the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh you're pretty much a permanent deacon I think that Van Nuys is the same but I'm not sure. I know that in Parma our Tradition of ordaining married men is actually being followed, kudos to Bishop John. Monomakh Although the restoration of the Permanent Diaconate in the Catholic Church pertained specifically to the Latin Rite, the guidelines adopted and issued by each national episcopal conference enjoins sui iuris Eastern Catholic Churches to utilize them as "reference" in their own diaconate programs. Thus, my question on the rules governing deacons in the Eastern Catholic Churches whether or not they mimic the distinction between Transitional Deacons (who can be ordained priests) and Permanent Deacons (who remain as deacons permanently in the Order of Deacons) that is currently followed in the Latin Church.
Last edited by Amadeus; 06/05/07 02:26 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285
AthanasiusTheLesser Member
|
|
AthanasiusTheLesser Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285 |
"I still contend that we don't need a seminary for two seminarians."
How about for: 6 seminarians, 15 deacon candidates, 14 students taking classes or seeking a Masters in Theology, 45 cantors attending the MCI, training for bi-ritual priests, training for catechists. A sui iuris church must have its own seminary.
Fr. Deacon Lance Where's this? For that matter why not share seminaries with other Eastern Catholic Churches even if we have three or four times as many students as you indicate? Seriously, where are these students you listed? CDL Carson: Today I had lunch with a member of my parish who is a deacon candidate. He told me that our seminary has 16 deacon candidates and 5 or 6 seminarians. Ryan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,189 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,189 Likes: 3 |
Carson:
Today I had lunch with a member of my parish who is a deacon candidate. He told me that our seminary has 16 deacon candidates and 5 or 6 seminarians.
Ryan At Pittsburgh? CDL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285
AthanasiusTheLesser Member
|
|
AthanasiusTheLesser Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285 |
Carson:
Yes, at Saints Cyril and Methodius in Pittsburgh.
Ryan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 576 |
Permanent deacons have always been commmon the Orthodox churches, especially in Europe as well as the OCA which had very well known protodeacons known for their voices. Every ROCOR cathedral in Germany had permanent deacons. My impression is that the ROCOR and OCA have had permanent deacons long before the RC re-introduced the practice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,177
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,177 |
Yes, the Orthodox Churches have long had deacons who were never ordained to the priesthood, but the priesthood has always been open to them. There is no canonical (legal) barrier - a deacon is a deacon is a deacon. He may be ordained to the priesthood in a year or so, in 30 years, or never. It's all in the hands of the Holy Spirit. It is only the Roman Catholic Church which had told certain men "you can become deacons, but never priests, but you other deacons (unmarried) will be ordained in 6-12 months".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337 Likes: 24
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337 Likes: 24 |
Carson,
St. Cyril and Methodius in Pittsburgh. There are currently 6 seminarians, 2 for Pittsburgh, 2 for Passaic, 1 for Parma, and 1 for the Byzantine Franciscans. The Seminary hosts the Deacon Formation Program, the Metropolitan Cantor Institute, and the Office of Religious Education. Since getting accredation non-seminarian students take courses. Currently 4 are in the Master of Arts in Theology Program, 10 are non-matriculating. The Seminary exists for all these things in addition to the seminarians. The property is paid off. The Seminary endowment is fully funded.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,189 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,189 Likes: 3 |
Father Deacon,
Thank you for that information. I'm most encouraged by such news. I wonder what it would do for our Church if every year or every other year or at least regularly the Metropolitan would have a sobor or conference to encourage the entire Church and to point us in directions for health and growth. It's not as if the practice is unheard of in either Eastern Catholic or Orthodox circles. Perhaps it could be combined with the pilgrimage to Pittsburgh.
CDL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 44
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 44 |
I don't mean to be overly coy but I've tried comparing our Church to a well run organization I can find very little that they have in common. I don't understand why.
I couldn't design a better program for destruction than what we have. Yet, nothing happens. Nothing. Why? Why? Why?
CDL Carson: Two things come to mind: 1. The laity are afraid to do anything because they fear losing something, what I don't know. 2. The Bishops will not hold the Deans of the deaneries responsibleto any plan And, the Deans won't hold the parishes and the parish priest responsible to any plan. Therefore, nothing is accomplished. This process has been going on for well over four decades! Scott
|
|
|
|
|
