www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Vesperal Liturgy broadcast

updated info for those intending to listen tonight.

We still cannot get the Radio Station 's Site

BUT

http://206.183.0.11:8001/whkw.mp3

will work for PCs in iTunes, WMP, Real Player and VLC

It may not be broadcast tonight as the Liturgy started at 4pm and Bishop John is ordaining his subdeacons to the diaconate at this Liturgy.

Fr. Deacon Lance

It was broadcast today. It was a regular "Vesperal" liturgy.

I've listened to this evening's broadcast.

First the good news. One could hear more people singing this time. But this may be due to the fact that there were a number of people from the seminary there this week. We shall see what how next week's broadcast sounds.

Examining the service itself, one notes there was no deacon this week. Perhaps he was saving his voice for the main Liturgy on Sunday... We did not hear Ps. 103, the First Kathisma (or any part of it), nor any of the readings at Vespers. As mentioned earlier, the Petras Typicon was followed and only three stichera (this week � for the feast of the Nativity of the Forerunner) were sung.

At the Liturgy itself the correct propers were taken, except at �It is truly proper�. In Slavic usage the irmos of the 9th Ode was to be sung (in some traditions it follows an introductory verse). Only the pryspiv was sung � we did not hear the irmos itself (or is this another peculiarity of the Petras Typicon?). An 'alternate' ambo prayer was read.

Where there were choices for melodies, melody 'B' was followed again.

I was also surprised to hear �Heavenly King� sung after the Gospel. I have never heard this done before � is it something unique to the Petras Typicon?

Now on to some less objective commentary... Things were pretty much the same as last week. Music was rushed, singing was flat and there were plenty of extraneous h-es. There is no excuse for this 1) in a cathedral, 2) for an open broadcast. Again, sounded like we had someone else � a better singer � come in after Communion, then the original cantor returned. I also found the way the 'silent' prayers were delivered annoying � but that is a 100% subjective opinion.

Tomorrow I hope to have a close listen to the recording and see if I can pick up anything else.

Father Deacon,

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you live in PA and in another Eparchy.

What happened this evening (ordinations) at the Cathedral was not broadcast.

It has clearly never been a live program in the past ever.

The broadcast from St. John�s in Parma has been on the radio (different stations from time to time) for many years. I wonder if they are actually broadcasting the entire liturgy (a Vesperal one in this case) from the previous day (on Saturday evening). You may be wondering isn�t that what they always did? In the past, I know for a fact that the only parts of the recording that were changed were the Tropar, Epistle and Gospel. (Note: You can ask pretty much any of the priests in the Eparchy of Parma if you need confirmation of this and I encourage people to do so. I�ve personally been in the recording room where the Epistle and Gospel were recorded in the past. From what I remember, the recording room is upstairs off of the choir loft more or less.) The rest of the service was the exact same recording every week. So with just a little editing, voila, you had that week�s service for the radio. I�ll have to listen to see how much difference there is from week to week.

Monomakh

"I was also surprised to hear �Heavenly King� sung after the Gospel. I have never heard this done before � is it something unique to the Petras Typicon?"

Perhaps not.

Out west we have been in the habit of singing "Heavenly King" after the Gospel for quite some time (30+ years that I personally can remember).

But I gather that all that is "BCC" revolves around a small sphere surrounding Pittsburgh, or at least one's own parish.

I have also heard the troparion of the feast, or "Duch Svjaty..." sung at parishes dedicated to the Holy Spirit

On page 9 of Sokol (1946) it lists:
"Pered propvid'--Before the Sermon"
1 "Carju nebesnyj"
2 "Duch Svatyj"

I would gather by that reference that this clearly PRE-dates Fr David's Typicon.

Thank you, Steve.

As I mentioned earlier, this practice is news to me. It is not in the Recensio rutena books, nor have I spotted it in any Ukrainian books (although I don't have the Dolnytsky Typicon in the original Slavonic, just a {sometimes questionable} Ukrainian translation). Hopefully those more knowledgeable than I will continue to contribute on this topic.

The singing of "O Heavenly King" or "The Holy Spirit" certainly pre-dates the work of Father David. However, it is a purely local custom, peculiar to Transcarpathia, and therefore does not appear in any official service-book, nor is this custom found in "Ruthenian" churches apart from those which trace their origin to Transcarpathia - and even there it is done ad libitum.

Fr. Serge

OK - I managed to hear it too .

Sadly immediately afterwards my Internet connection went down so was unable to make any comments about it - and I have quite a lot.

I'll get dowm to writing up my comments later today - again I will not comment on the texts - I don't know them well enough. I will be commenting on how it sounds to the outsider coming new to it

Well - now for my comments about the Liturgy from Parma that I heard last night.

Please bear in mind that I am UGCC so can't really talk about the texts.

To start we had problems accessing the broadcast at all - and I'd be glad if someone could in fact tell me what is happening with the Station itself - it was much easier to get there last week from WHKW AM 1220

However - get there I did - and after some band music the Liturgy itself started.

The first thing that struck me [ now remember I did sing a great deal in my youth so I am criticising as a singer ] was that we were still getting intrusive 'h's . There really is no excuse for this and it should not take long for the problem to be sorted . Hearing "Lo-ho-ho-hord have mercy" is a real turn off , not to mention "Glo-ho-hory". Strangely enough you will not normally hear congregations singing in this way. This problem with the intrusive 'h's must be dealt with. This Service, coming as it does from the Cathedral , should show what is best in Liturgical worship - and with this sort of thing it does not.

The congregation were a little better this week - but I would still like to have heard more - since this is a weekly broadcast please would they check the placement of Microphones ? It is sad that anyone who is not EC would gain the impression from this that congregations do not take part. This as we know , is far from the truth - when the congregation know [ I mean really know ] the music they are singing it becomes part of them and they will sing from their hearts and souls. I have always been astonished just how my Parish sing - mainly older folk and few with books - but oh it is sooooo natural . I can't say that I get this feeling from the Cathedral of St John the Baptist.

Again there were very marked tempo variations - some things dragged badly and others were rushed almost to the gabble state. It was a little better than last week - but again this is something that can be improved - and I hope that it will be - rapidly.

Why was the singing flat so often ? Again - this requires work .

Yes I know that Cantors are often volunteers and therefore I presume unpaid - but if your Cantor does not have sufficient pride in his work [ and I really do mean this ] and he cannot hear when he is flat , then he should not be singing for something as important as this. It may be a weekly Service - but it's one that could attract people to our Eastern Churches - and if musical people hear these badly sung Chants , they will not be attracted. Keeping pitch in unaccompanied music is not easy I will admit - but going flat is not good.

I realise that they are very tight for time in this broadcast - there was still someone speaking last night when the radio station started the next programme - this is a shame - though if some of the responses had not been dragged maybe [ I'm not 100% convinced at this stage ] timing might have been better.

I would be grateful if someone from St John's would tell me from where they managed to get their silent thurible - just a wee thing I know - but the sound of the bells lifts people .

This may seem as being destructive - I hope not. My intention is to be constructive in my criticism. I'm sure this could be a great broadcast service - and I hope and trust it will be.

Slava Isusu Christu!

I have not had a chance to hear the broadcast yet, but I may be able to shed some light on the problems some people have had getting the station. Without getting too technical, the broadcast for the station is going through a "server." That's simply a big computer that is used to store information or to route information. Each server has a limited number of connections. Think of it as electrical outlets in a room. If the server that has the broadcast only has enough connections for 100 people to listen at a time--anyone after that 100 won't be able to access the server. If you only have two double outlets in the room, you can't plug in five things. (Unless you add an extension cord or an outlet strip.) I don't know anything about the broadcast--what company they use (Adelphia, Comcast, etc) or how it is set up. But my best guess is that the reason people can't hear is there aren't enough open connections. They probably don't need that many on a normal basis. But with the RDL, more and more people are trying to listen. So you are stuck in a traffic jam. I work at a Big Ten University and we put an internet radio station on the air in my College a few years ago. The same thing happened. We were able to track the number of people who tried to access the website--and we didn't have enough capacity. So the Dean said to get more connections. (Put outlet strips in the room with only two double outlets.) Now we can have up to one thousand people listening at a time. Before it was 100, I believe.

One person said to try this address: http://206.183.0.11:8001/whkw.mp3. Again, without getting too technical--each computer has a unique "address" called an IP address. Just as no two homes have the same telephone number or street address, no two computers have the same IP address. In this case, the address is 206.183.0.11. That is the server that has the broadcast. The next numers: 8001 are probably one of the connection numbers I mentioned earlier. I just tried it and it would not work--someone is probably using that connection. So I, in effect, got a "busy signal" the way you would on a telephone.

I could be way off on this, but with my experience, it certainly sounds like this is the problem. At least being able to access the program. Now the problems with mic placement and cutting people off as they are still talking, that's something the station is responsible for. Most likely people are getting cut off because the station is using an automation system and whe the clock on the computer running the system says it's time to move on--it moves on, whether DL is over or not.

I hope this helps and doesn't confuse anyone

Slava Na Viki!

Tim

Tim

Thanks for that explanation - it makes sense. However it's now over 24 hours since I managed to access the actual Website for the Radio Station.

I really don't know how I managed to get on last night , but I did - thank goodness.

I trust this will be fixed / upgraded / more points [outlets ? ] put into the system by next week.

I really want to see if it improves

OK did anyone else listen to it ?

Rufinus - you said you would - did you ? Your thoughts on it ?

OK - Rufinus - you posted this on 21/06/07 at 3.47pm

It is now 26th June.

I have posted my thoughts on Sunday's Broadcast of the Saturday Vigil.

I notice that you have posted since then - but you have not mentioned the Service - did you listen ?

Enquiring minds want to know

Is this "revised" Divine Liturgy anyplace on the internet for someone to hear that does not attend a GC church? Just curious what all the commotion about the chant is.