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Have I heard that when certain people convert to the Catholic Church from certain ethnic backgrounds that they are supposed to according to canon law be members of certain rites according to their background? Is this correct or do I misunderstand? Would it apply to a convert who has a Ukrainian or someone with Armenian background? Which nationalities would it cover?

Also I understand that if a couple is married that the man determines the rite of the whole family? So if people from two different rites married they would have to be the rite of the husband? Or what if someone was married to a Catholic but not Catholic themself but wanted to convert to a rite different than her husband could she even do it? If a baptist was married to an Eastern Rite Catholic and she liked the Latin church better for example could she convert to latin rite or would she have to be Eastern Rite and simply go to the church she wanted to when she could?

You have a lot of misunderstandings. I'll take them one at a time.

1) Nationality or ethnicity is not the determinant for which Church a convert is automatically enrolled in. His previous Church affiliation is the determining factor. If an Eastern or Oriental Orthodox person converts to Catholicism, that person is automatically enrolled in the Catholic equivalent of the Church he came from. A Coptic Orthodox defaults into the Coptic Catholic Church. He may choose to be enrolled in another ritual Church, but must make a conscious decision to do so before his conversion so that the priest may properly notate it on his baptismal certificate. Those converting from other faith traditions, or lack of faith traditions, are not automatically enrolled in any particular Church.

2) A man does not determine the church enrollment of his entire family. Neither spouse is expected to change Church enrollment because of the marriage. Either spouse may change Church enrollment to that of the spouse if it is desired. A Latin man may change to his wife's ritual Church with his wedding. The priest would notate this on the marriage certificate. A Catholic woman of any Church may change her enrollment to that of her husband with the wedding or anytime during the marriage.

In the case of children of a Catholic marriage where the spouses belong to two different Catholic Churches, the couple may choose which of the two Churches to baptize the children into. They need to express those desires to the baptizing priest so that it may be notated on the baptismal certificate. If they don't say otherwise, or if they disagree, the children automatically are enrolled in the Church of the father.

Children born outside of marriage automatically follow the enrollment of the mother if she is Catholic.

3. A non-Catholic adult (14 or older) may convert to any of the ritual Churches. The Church enrollment of parents or spouse does not matter when the convert is 14 or older. If a Baptist was married to an Eastern Catholic, she would be free to convert to Catholicism and be enrolled in the Latin Church if she wanted to.

She could even decide to be enrolled in one Church, but to spend her time in another ritual Church. In this case, it might be for family unity. Her regular attendance in one ritual Church would not require that she be enrolled in that Church.

4. People are not enrolled in Eastern or Oriental rites. They are enrolled in the particular ritual Churches sui iuris.

So if someone was a convert from Russian Orthodox would that mean he should become a Ukrainian Catholic or something like that? I met someone today who's husband actually was a convert like at least 35 years ago from Russian Orthodoxy to Catholicism, but they worship in a Latin Rite church. Would he need permission to do this? Would the priest who brought him into the church have made a mistake if he did not tell the person about this? What if anything should he do now?

1. A Russian Orthodox would become a Russian Catholic, on paper at least. I am not familiar what is done in situations when there is not a parish of that jurisdiction in any proximity (like, the same side of the world.) I would be interested in finding out.

2. You touch on a controversial topic. I am not commenting on how it should be or if the canons reflect reality. I am not familiar with what the canonical rules would have been 35 years ago, so I won't comment on your friend's husband. I will say that should this scenario happen right now, a strict reading of the canons would have your friend's husband as a Russian Catholic and his children would be Russian Catholic, since they would not have made an express decision to baptize the children into the Latin Church, not knowing that they need to. His sons' children would likely have the same situation.

His records most likely would not correctly reflect this fact if the priest was not aware of his need to document it. The priest should know and share these things, but the reality is that many tribunals are not readily aware of it, so why should the priests be? Further, a few priests are aware that members of their congregation are Eastern Catholics and they do not offer this information to them because they do not want to loose the parishioners or their tithes. Most priests just don't know.

It is estimated that more Eastern Catholics worship in the Latin Church in America than do in the Eastern Catholic churches. It isn't known how many of them even know they are Eastern Catholic. This isn't a problem in most circumstances because Catholics are free to worship in any of the Catholic Churches, and do not need permission to do so. They are technically bound to the canonical requirements of their own Church, no matter which Church they worship in. There is controversy over whether this is reasonable, but it is factual. Those canons cover fasting regulations, required attendance, wedding requirements, and more. One area that it does matter in is ordination. One has to go through all kinds of hoop to be ordained by a Church one doesn't belong to, and it isn't easy to get such approval. So your friends' grandson might have a wrench thrown in his plans if he discovers that he is not canonically a Latin while preparing for ordination, should his bishop go by the books. I have heard of such situations arising.

3. It is a matter of opinion what, if anything, a person in your friend's position should do. When it has come up here in the past, every opinion could be found. It is especially pointed out that many converts from Orthodoxy intend to convert to the Latin Church, so it isn't fair for them to have an additional hoop to jump through that other converts don't. The only advice I would feel comfortable offering is that he should speak to his priest and/or the diocesan tribunal if he feels a need to seek guidance or to take action.

The Russian Orthodox gentleman who became a Catholic 35 years or so ago should indeed have been told that he properly belonged to the nearest Russian Greek-Catholic parish and/or the nearest Greek-Catholic parish of any description, depending on geography. And yes, that theoretical affiliation persists in his children.

There is a strange glitch in the two Codes of Canons, with the result that a Latin husband is allowed to transfer automatically (if he so desires) to the Eastern Catholic Church of his wife; a Catholic wife of any Catholic Church is allowed to transfer automatically to the Catholic Church of her husband, but an Eastern Catholic husband is not allowed an automatic transfer to the Latin Church of his wife. No one quite seems to know how or why this imbalance has occurred.

Fr. Serge

Alright, I admit it. It was me. I did it. It was all my fault. It started as a little joke to see what I could sneek by the Curia, and it got out of hand when it made it into Canon Law.

Blame me, I'm very sorry. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!



Incidently, I'm ethnically Armenian and Irish, Baptized Latin, mother's side is secular (ethnically Armenian, but two generations without the Faith in my particular line), so I'm a true-blue Armenian Latin Catholic with no hoops or anything.

On the other hand, I know a fellow who is two-generations practicing in the Latin Church, but his family is Ukrainian Catholic patrilineally. Wouldn't have even come up as an issue, except he entered the Dominican Order and they did a careful background check and found out that he's "technically" Ukrainian Catholic. The Order went "by the books" and he had to get permission from "his" Ukrainian Catholic Bishop to enter the Order (mind you he had already almost completed his first year of the Novitiate by this point). Long story short, he's now in-line to be a Latin-raised Ukrainian Dominican, bi-ritual and all since he wasn't required to switch Churches in order to enter the Dominican Order, just receive permission from his Ukrainian Bishop.

The upside to all this silliness is that he has a new found appreciation of the Byzantine East, and is bringing it with him into the Dominican Order. I hope to follow in his footsteps some day, God willing!

Peace and God bless!

Now you've got me "wondering," no pun intended.

There are two women in my parish who were Byzantine Catholic who were told they had to become Latin Catholic on their marriage to their Latin husbands. Both cases are more than 40 years old.


This another area that has me "wondering." I'd been told by clergy many years ago that my children would be the rite--now sui juris Church--of their father, regardless of the mother's expressed desire otherwise.

In Christ,

BOB

For those old enough to remember Vatican II, that version of the Confiteor reads:

Bea culp, Bea culpa, Bea Maximos culpa. (Bad Latin but still funny).

Fr. Serge

Bob,
These are both common misconceptions. It is my personal opinion that some people intend to change ritual churches or to baptize their children into the Latin Church, but they are unaware of the canons which require them to make such a decision, thinking the Latin priest baptizing them in the Latin Church does so. On the other hand, it is obvious that some people were coerced into changing churches and they are technically changed against their will, while others are not changed despite their will. It is a murky situation.

One thing that is true is that the children follow the Church enrollment of the Father if he wishes it so and the mother expressly disagrees (assuming they are both Catholic). In the case of a disagreement, it falls to the father's Church. Some people misunderstand this and believe that is true even in the case of marriages with one partner being a non-Catholic. I've met people who say they would like to raise their children in the Church, but are required by the canons to raise the children in the non-Catholic church the dad belongs to. That is also a misconception.

You can read the canons directly here [intratext.com]. You're looking for Canons 29-38.

The equivalent Latin Code can be read here [vatican.va]. You're looking for Canons 110-112.

One thing I wonder about is the application of Canon 29, which includes the provision for a child "born of an unwed mother, he is enrolled in the Church sui iuris to which the mother belongs." Is a civil marriage recognized for this Canon? I don't know.

Father Serge,
I do not know if it is accurate, but I was told that the previous canons only allowed women to change churches to that of their husbands without the request being sent to the apostolic see, then the most recent Latin canons allowed their men to change as well. While women may change at any point in time during the marriage, the men may only change at the wedding. Otherwise, they have to go through the entire Change of Canonical Enrollment. If this is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, it would explain the inconsistency.