www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Eastern Catholic view of the permanency of marriage?

Wow, your questions, comments and explanations are fascinating.
Michael, you answered my question about infertility/fertility so clearly.

Wondering, I still don't get why a marriage would be penitential because it would seem to undermine the second marriage. Are the couple to remember the first marriage all their lives and daily beat themselves with mea culpa sticks?! What about blessings so that the second marriage might fulfill its purpose. This is the one aspect of Orthodoxy (I'm EC)I absolutely do not understand at all.It seems so defeating and negative.
Joe, the Pauline, Petrine,indisolubility thing is pretty confusing.Could it be that only true marriages are indisoluble? The key world seems to be 'true marriage'.If it can be dispensed with or dissolved (annulment or divorce)then it was never true to begin with because it was knowingly or unknowingly contracted on faulty grounds. Logic is not my strong point so please show me what I'm missing here.

Indigo

I would imagine the answer to that is no, just like we shouldn't continually beat ourselves up over confessed sins. Read Fr. Hopko's piece to understand the meaning of what is taking place. The first marriage is the ideal, and one could not carry on like it never happened, because in the eyes of the church it did.

I know of a handful of couples where one spouse was married before, and in their second marriage they have had children, found happiness and so on. Maybe they wear their hairshirts at night, but they seem pretty happy to me.

Yes, I too know many Orthodox couples where one has been previously married and divorced, and they are happy and have brought forth children.

When one spouse is being married for the first time, the same order is used for the ceremony as it is for two previously unmarried people.

Perhaps what was meant by the word 'penitential' in one of the posts here, is that although a second marriage is performed, never the less, the Church does not rejoice in that a previous marriage died. Or perhaps what that person was referring to was the different order which is used when two previously married persons get married again...

Having said that, I have been to alot of Orthodox weddings and not one of them included TWO previously married and divorced persons, but alot of them included ONE previously married and divorced person, and therefore, the ceremony was *just as joyous* as it would be under normal circumstances. (This is out of the church's concern to not spoil it for the person who is looking forward to their first marriage).

I know of atleast three women who have received ecclesiastical divorces despite the fact that they did not remarry after their civil divorces. Apparently, I just learned from one, she was told by her priest that she could not recieve Holy Communion unless she attained this.

In all three cases, I am even more convinced of the compassion of the Orthodox Church in allowing the dispensation of ecclesiastical divorce. All three women had husbands who just up and left them for another woman (in one case, it was even the woman's best friend), and proceeded to even have children with them!!!

Alice

Alice,

I agree with you. The Orthodox Church's position and practice simply makes much more sense than the Roman Catholic practice. Interestingly enough, it is also more just insofar as it recognizes the innocence of one spouse and the guilt of the other. In a situation where a marriage is annulled, the innocent spouse is told that her marriage was a sham and her cheating husband also gets a free ride to remarry. But, in the practice of the Orthodox Church, the innocent spouse is declared innocent and given permission to remarry; whereas the guilty party (the cheating husband) is forever banned from being able to marry. So, unlike certain cases where the husband gets a Church wedding for him and his lover, in Orthodoxy he would be excommunicated.

Joe

Ah, at last, illumination! The only Catholic,Orhtodox or EC marraiges I've seen have been on TV.
Thanks Alice , Joe and AMM (what?! hairshirts aren't sold in the church bookstore?!)
I'll read Hopko's article again...slowly.
Psychologically it would seem that assigning innocence would be important . I would think the prospect of excommuncation would halt an errant spouse, but I guess they're either hardhearted or too weak to avoid temptation.If they see the light and truly repent might the Church readmit them into communion?

Indigo