www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West What would you say?

I agree with you Gabriel on broadmindedness on this issue. But under these particular circumstances sounds like the Latin priest was rude and disrespectful to this person. And telling her not to come to mass was just too much. How can a priest tell any Catholic, no matter of tradition, not to attend mass in his parish? I also frequently attend the local Latin church for the same reasons as this person but I have been fortunate to have not experienced a reaction like that, if anything the priest has suggested it might be nice for some from the parish to attend an Eastern Liturgy.

The last time I went to a Latin church, the priest was very excited to show me his Monastery Icons piece, chanted out "wisdom" very loudly and oddly before the Gospel reading for my benefit (at least I hope it was for my benefit and not his normal practice), and he offered to intinct the Eucharist for me.

The rest of the Mass consisted of whatever the priest made up extemporaneously, horizontal and vertical inclusive lyrics, and a homily that was entirely spoken from Joseph's perspective about him lying in bed with Mary. I expected liturgical dancers to pop out from behind the Monastery Icons stand at any minute, but was thankfully spared.

Wondering, that`s sure an experience anyone could do without. The parish I referred to was very blessed to have had this priest, the Mass was always said traditionally and with reverence.

Sadly, your friend's priest made his position clear. Now, your friend will have to make some decisions.

Does your friend want to be Eastern Christian or Western Christian?

If your friend wants to be Western Christian, your friend will have to learn the customs and Tradition of Western Christianity.

If your friend wants to be Eastern Christian, your friend will need to find an Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox parish. Or, your friend will have to move to where one is (if that is possible).

And if moving is not possible, and if there is no Eastern Christian parish close by, your friend will have some serious soul searching to do about what is most important to him/her and what compromises must be made.

-- John

Somehow that would have struck me as a bit over the top. I mean the sacredness of the marriage bed is something that remains sacred because we don't flaunt it in public and we don't talk about the intimate details. Does this strike anyone else as a bit creepy?

BOB

Perhaps this individual could find a group of like minded eastern Catholics (or interested Latins) and gather to pray the Typica service regularly?

Are they in the Metropolia? I believe that the Metropolia has adopted the language of Sunday as a "Holy Day of Obligation." Perhaps he can approach his hierarch for a "dispensation" not to attend the Latin Church where he has experienced such a hostile and decidedly un-Catholic (an un-Christian) reception. (I've never heard of such a thing, but I'm sure it does happen...) Otherwise, maybe he could petition to transfer to another Eastern jurisdiction that will permit him to hold such Typica services at home and recieve the sacraments from the Latins (especially Reconciliation, Eucharist Anointing of the Sick) only when necessary.

I'm sure that situations like this exist. I know that is how I would handle things.

Gordo

The whole thing seems strange - I have attended Latin-rite Masses fairly routinely in the 20 years I have been "canonically" Greek Catholic. That has even included Tridentine Masses, and I have never run across this. Generally it has precipitated honest inquiries or genuine curiosity, and not hostility. I've even been offered to let my young children receive Communion.

Another good publication is the Knights of Columbus Veritas series publication written by Bishop (Emeritus) +Basil of Stamford. I have found the Knights' publications to be good ice-breakers for even the most staunch and biased Latins.

The priest's actions are simply not within the bounds of charity, nor represent the teaching of the Magesterium, the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops, nor the particular law of any church. I would, in charity, present this misguided fellow the authentic position of the Church on these matters.

I have been in the same situation as your friend for many years and would often attend a Roman parish. When a new elderly man was ordained a priest in the parish, he was hesitant to communicate my younger children who were not of the age of reason. He asked the rector who was a past president of the Canon Law Society (Roman Rite) what to do. The past president put the issue on the canon lawyers private discussion board. I think one canon lawyer (from the northwest) indicated that communicating the little ones was not according to the "spirit" of canon law. Twenty-five canon lawyers responded saying that communion should not be denied to these little ones. I learned about this discussion from the past president of the canon law society.

I can see, however, in certain circumstances (but your friends doesn't seem to be one), the old saying, "When in Rome...," might apply.

When I go to a Byzantine Church I respect the Byzantine traditions. I stand during the consecration. I make the sign of the cross from right to left. I do not genuflect before the tabernacle, I bow. When in a Roman Church I act a Roman. I agree with the above post. "When in Rome.." Just as when I go to a byzatine Church, "When in the East..." (OK, I know that that was a terrible paraphrase).

I too (an RC) fully participate in the liturgical rite of the church I am attending. I am a guest in another man's house (so to speak). I see no value in mixing rites together. I stand (or cross myself, etc..) according to the customs of the particular liturgical rite I have chosen to attend. If one chooses to participate in another rite and liturgy .. than .. participate (meaning ... do as they do).

However .. the RC priest should be accommodating to any particular need the Eastern may have. It is a requirement on him. I say ... need. And so the Easterner should discuss things with the priest ... before hand ... and present any particular needs or desires. Else how does the priest know the intentions?

I say ... before hand. In as much as the priest is responsible to God for the 'house' put in his care - we should keep that in mind and not exclude him from what we might do in his 'house'.

This incident is a mole hill. It should have been avoided before hand. It should not have come to battle. Apparently both were a bit rude to each other. Charity was lacking all around. The question is .. which party needs to gain charity and try to understand the needs of the other? Both have needs.

Please keep in mind that the Roman Catholic church is huge. It is fairly common that people attend who have the intention of disruption and making 'statements'. In my own church there is a homeless man who mimics the priest (raising his hands etc.. when the priest does) and we all understand his mental limitations. His life is such a ruin that he needs to feel special and so we let him recieve communion first. He would be upset if not. We see no reason to try and cure him. Tolerance and understanding is needed. There are sever limitations there. We are often visited by feminist RCs who put on a show in the pew. At least in my neck of the woods the priest must keep an eye out for such disruptions and handle them.

-ray

By the way...

It just dawned on me that there is still opportunity for charity to do it's lovely work!

Tell your friend that there is obviously a misunderstanding... and to go to that priest before hand .. and say "Father... If I was rude and unthoughtful .. I am sorry. I am Eastern Catholic attending a Latin rite. Our churches are united. Can we sit and talk about that? I certainty do not mean to disrupt things. At the same time I would like to honor my heritage and be faithful to the traditions that Christ has given me."

One can be very wise to take the position that this priest may need help to understand .. and your friend may actually help .. if not done in a confrontational way. Then perhaps your friend would be partially responsible for helping Jesus make that priest - a better priest.

Only the strong can bend low enough to help the weak.

and play it by ear from then on out.

-ray

I wonder how large this Roman Catholic parish is. Unless it's small, I doubt this person has disrupted. Occasionally, my wife and I go to Mass with her father at his home parish, which is not a huge parish, but is certainly not small. My wife and I cross ourselves the Eastern way, and we cross ourselves in some places in the Mass when no one else does. Out of respect, we do kneel with the rest of the congregation starting at the end of the benidictus qui venit. As far as the way in which we cross ourselves, no one has ever said anything to us. To be honest, I think very few people even notice. If someone were to say something, I would simply point out that I am a Byzantine Catholic and that is the way we cross ourselves. I think that would suffice for most people.

Ryan

You expressed yourself superbly my dear. And it make all the sense in the world. He is going to unite the church - in you. Inside your spirit my dear. It is a gift he will give you. A heart which loves what he loves. But you will also feel the great pain he feels for humanity which ignores him. Too busy with other things .. passing him by with no interest. Somehow ... an exquisite sorry that will be very hard to carry. The deepest sorrow you will ever know.

So I am told ... anyway.

It was good that you were so open this time. Consider to be wise in what you share in public. The treasures that are meant for you and your own spiritual growth - are not for every ear.

So I am told anyway.

Please mention me, once, in your prayers.

-ray

Dear Jeanne,

I sent you a PM ... click on [My Stuff].

-ray

Politicians who support abortion, divorced catholics, all manner of sinners come up to partake of the eucharist and are not turned away. Our innocent children risk being turned away and as responsible parents dare we even try?

Chrismation becomes a 2nd class sacrament under this model. Is this tolerable to anyone? Insofar as I can tell, that's never been official policy but rather seems to have crept in on a wave of ignorance and bigotry.