www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West The Sacred Heart, a naturalist devotion?

Dear Stanislav:

While I understand that Marian appartions are not a part of your faith tradition, they are part of the Roman Catholic faith tradition, including some of the "talking apparitions." While I don't think it was your intent, suggesting that the talking appartions could be "deceptive spirits" could easily be interpreted as an insult by many of the Catholic members of the Forum. You might consider treading a bit more lightly with respect to this topic.

Sincerely,

Ryan

Stanislav,

Thanks for explaining the bold type. I thought it had something to do with morning coffee!

I understand the natural skepticism regarding apparitions of Our Lord, the Theotokos and the saints. I think seeking after these things is definitely far from beneficial to the spiritual life.

But let's keep this in proper perspective. Just read any of the biographies of Saint Seraphim of Sarov, for instance, and you will see a whole host of revelations and appartitions, particularly of the Mother of God. One would not certainly accuse him of veering away from apostolic teaching!

I think what you offer is a good measure of the veracity of any reported apparition: does it correspond to orthodox belief and practice? If not, then it should be rejected.

Peace,

Gordo

I remember, in the early 1990's, while still living in N.J., watching a weekly Greek Orthodox program on cable TV. One program featured a visit by Archbishop Iakavos to a nursing home. In addressing the residents, he made some comment to the effect that he liked the Roman Catholic devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and wish that Orthodoxy had something like it, because it led to an understanding of the great mercy of the heart of God. This made me chuckle because many of our own Byzantine Catholic clergy and laity, who consider themselves to be great "vostochniks" take a hard line against this devotion. I see it as a fine devotion. It is very incarnational. I would not force it on anybody, especially officially, in an Eastern Church context. However, I wouldn't stop an Eastern Catholic (or Orthodox) person from practicing it if he or she so desires. Let's not get caught up in a "style over substance" mindset.

Dn. Robert

dear brother ryan,,,im not condemning any thing ..im giving the oxthodox side only..what we orthodox are not to accept and to be wary of and if our eastern catholic brothers and sisters claim to also be orthodox in faith should be wary of also...stanislav мир...peace...

dear brother..ebed melech ...what ever this holy orthodox saint experienced he wrote it down ..but didnt preach it as gospel to nobody as far as i know he didnt,,,after his death the holy church exsamined his writing to see if they were orthodox or not....peace stanislav

dear Father Deacon,,,him being in a nursing home uummm as a orthodox christian thu out our whole liturgy its mentions the great mercy God has for us.... as the lover of mankind ...from the ancient times to now..we dont need any new Revelation with the twelve promises another gospel telling us about his great mercy ...which we have known from day one the Crucifixion on onward to this presend day.....thank you ill stick to what the holy apostles gave to our holy fathers ...слава Богу...станислав..stanislav

This is good advice.

From now on I will run away from incorrupt bodies and never call them "saint". I will flee screaming away from streaming icons and pray someone burns them...fast!! I will hide in trembling from those who have been visited by saints in visions and dreams. And I will scorn all who say they have seen some fire light up all by itself whatever the reason that I am given. And I will report the lunatics who go out on the street pretending that they are doing wild and insane things in the name of Christ.

I always suspected these kinds of things were of some diabolic origin and I am so happy to have found someone to agree with me.

In Christ, but not too loudly!!

M.

How many of the Twelve Great Feasts did the Holy Apostles pass on to us? Did the Holy Apostles observe Christmas and the Great Fast? Did the Apostles give us the Liturgies of St. Basil the Great and St. John Chrysostom? What about the daily cycle of prayers? Did they tell us to adopt the political divisions of the Roman Empire to organize the dioceses of the Church? Did they tell us to organize in Ecumenical Councils when called upon by the Emperor in order to resolve disputes within the Church? What about the particulars of which foods are and are not allowed on fasting days? Hmmm...

Ryan

Actually the account of the apparitions was related verbally by him to others. I think you are ascribing a level of authority to these apparitions concerning the Sacred Heart devotion that the Catholic CHurch does not ascribe. It is regarded as a private revelation only and is not binding in any way on the faithful. The same is true for the Divine Mercy devotions. This is reflective of the charismatic and prophetic dimensions of the Church, which must always subject iself to the apostolic-hierarchical and magisterial dimensions.

God bless,

Gordo

Whatever one makes of individual private revelations and promises and such, the essence of the devotion to the sacred heart of Jesus is that Jesus loves us as a fellow human being, one who sympathizes with us as our high priest; and not just as God. I see nothing wrong with this. In fact, it is quite insightful theology, to be honest. So, I agree with those that this is a fruitful devotion for all Christians.

Joe

dear brother jsMelkiteOrthodoxy.... we dont seperate christ or worship his humanity the whole christ divine and human to geather saves us,, not just his human half...tell me what are the twelve promises unheard of by the holy ancient fathers defenders of the holy orthodox way...plus the attacment the indulgences and so forth....slava Bogu stanislav

dear father Deacon..the church structure was modeled on the secular government to bring order...actually im curious what any of this has to due with a alleged apparition claming to be jesus and interducing 12 promises unknown to the holy fathers ...dont forget the holy church was guided by the Holy Spirit who is God and as the church was growing they instituted the holy feast days so all in all following the Holy Spirit who is guiding the holy orthodox church...it is on the right path bring salvation to the world....glory to most Holy co substantial and undivided Trinity..our Great lord and God...stanislav the holy fasts was again modeled after the jewish two day fast ...for us wed and fri
for the jews it was mon and thur.....as the church grew it gained
wisdom from the Holy Spirit who leads in all truth...amin amin.

dear brother Ebed Melech...where is his cult followers then .. i havent heard of any ...some probably have him as their patron saint,,,like my paton saint we call a slava which is st.Alexander Nevsky,,,,mir,,,,stanislav

For starters, I'm not a deacon. Next, my point is that these things I've listed, which are part of the Church's tradition, did not come directly from the Apostles. What it has to do with what the apparitions is that you reject them on the basis that they were not known to the Apostles. You need to give that argument up if you are not going to apply it consistently. If you reject the apparitions, that's fine. I have no problem with that. But I do have a problem with your use of the argument that it should be rejected on the basis that it did not come directly from the Apostles. Many aspects of both Orthodox and Catholic traditions do not come directly from the Apostles.

Ryan

dear eliamaria...the holy icons are widows to heaven we dont worship them we venerate them...also alot of people way back in time couldnt read so the icon told the biblical storys hence they are written... also the life of the holy saints....our holy mother...and our saviour his birth his crucifiction..his glories resurrection....the Dormition the falling asleep of the holy virgin..and so forth....love.....stanislav