www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West The Sacred Heart, a naturalist devotion?

Brigid,

I look forward to reading the article. I would recommend Pope Benedict's (Joseph Ratzinger's) "Behold the Pierced One" as one of those "bridge building" books that focus on the patristic view of the heart in relationship to Christology.

I understand what Father Michael is asserting here. I just disagree with his premise that SHD somehow separates the natures of Christ by the iconographical focus on the heart, especially when one considers the theology of the heart as the center of the person - the whole person, and in the case of the Incarnate Word, the Hypostatic Union. I certainly am not arguing for the attempt to integrate SHD into the Orthodox spiritual life. But I do not think it should be rejected or critiqued based on false or misleading premises, anymore than devotion to the Holy Face should be rejected because...well, what about the Holy Hands, Holy Feet, Holy Side, etc etc? Devotion to Jesus Christ - whole and entire - is implied in both, so the condemnation of the ecumenical council mentioned above does not really apply - even indirectly.

That being said, Father Michael does offer a helpful corrective for those practitioners of the SHD who might be inclined to somehow separate devotion to the Sacred Heart from devotion to Jesus Christ. But one does not get the sense that such a minority view (if it exists at all or has ever existed) is part of the SHD or the private revelations associated with it.

In ICXC,

Gordo

The article is no more than one man's interpretation and a poor one as far as I am concerned. I never met a person who treats the devotion as Father Michael describes. Doesn't mean I could not; means I have not, and I live in an area where the devotion is strong, along with the Divine Mercy. So these kinds of things written by outsiders may safely be ignored in the face of reality.

Had Father Michael done an analysis on the imagery and the differences between western religious art, and true iconography, then he might have had something not only useful to say, but true and real. As it stands, the article is nothing more than a polemic, separated from reality. I am never impressed by that kind of Orthodox thinking or writing.

Mary

Dear Gordo,

Thanks for the book recommendation. I understand, of course, that you are not trying to force this devotion onto others. I mostly lurk here since I have no experience whatsoever of eastern-rite Catholicism and little to say as a struggling convert. What prompted me to enter the debate was that Fr Michael articulates the concerns about naturalism which Stanislav also expressed and which Mexican had initially wondered about.

I appreciate your point about the Holy Face, but the tradition of the Holy Face, be it the Veronica or the Not Made with Hands image of Edessa seems to be something genuinely shared by both east and west from early times. The Sacred Heart doesn't. When I look at the Sacred Heart I see a product of the western Catholic counter-reformation, and I can't easily relate the Orthodox view of the heart to that. I suppose it isn't helped by the quality of the iconography surrounding the devotion, but again, even an easternized icon of the Sacred Heart such as you posted earlier would have no appeal for me. Mexican said earlier that it does appeal to some Orthodox, of course as a convert from Catholicism, I may well have different sensitivities. The cult of the Sacred Heart was always a big part of traditional Irish Catholicism, yet I always felt repelled by the sentimentality of the imagery.

It can be sometimes rather shocking to modern sensibilities to see the kind of western medieval devotions centred around body parts of Christ, particularly those involving the Passion. I'm thinking of things like the devotion to the Five Wounds or the prayer to the Shoulder Wound of Christ. I think there was even a devotion to the drops of blood spilt en route to Calvary, separate from the main devotion to the Precious Blood.

Finally, you might enjoy this short piece on St Nicholas Cabasilas, the Eucharist and the Sacred Heart of Jesus. I wasn't convinced myself by the evidence presented here, but it might be of interest to those following the debate. Go to page 5 of the pdf.

http://www.westernorthodox.com/stmark/lion/lion2007-06

Brigid

It's worth pointing out, I think, that the devotion to the Sacred Heart predates the 17th century by many centuries. Prior to that time it was a private devotion mostly contemplated by mystics, however. The real work of popularizing and publicizing the Devotion began a few decades before the apparition, to boot. It's not a devotion based on an apparition, but rather the apparition is connected to the pre-existing devotion.

You can read a bit about the history of the devotion and its development here:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07163a.htm

There is more to be found online, but that is the most straightforward article on the subject.

Peace and God bless!

Such opinions (and that is all it is) perpetuate East/West misunderstandings. What authority does he have over the Catholic church and its traditions and customs? The answer is - none.

Why do any of us - accept this?? Why does anyone (Orthodox, Catholic, Byzantine, Coptic, etc..) accept this intellectual confusion as if it had some real solid meaning?? while it only serves to perpetuate misunderstandings and suspicions?

Uncharitable in the least.

Denies even basis human common sense to Catholics.

(keep your cool Ray - there is a reason why God decided to create his church with ethnic divisions - he wants us to overcome them)

The title of 'Father' or even bishop or theologian ... or the publishing of a book ... has no guarantee of the personal holiness or automatic real understanding of the mind of Christ.

It only assures him a pay check.

On the day I witness any religious writer (Catholic. Orthodox. whatever...) say "I was wrong and I am sorry I mislead so many people." and refund all the money he received from his past books sales ... pigs will fly.

-ray

Ray,

It might be a little difficult for Father Michael to say or do anything. He entered into eternal rest about two decades ago at the venerable age of 100.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Brigid,

Thank you for the link. I am very much a fan of St. Nicholas Cabasilas (as was, interestingly enough, the Council of Trent). This is the first time I have read this. Marvellous!

I agree with you about devotion to the various bodily wounds , etc etc. Such things can become excessive, as is true for all forms of devotion that can easily slide into devotionalism. It is for this reason that I find a safer, far richer and more sure haven in the Scriptures and the actual daily prayers of the Church (the Horologion and the Menaion). Perhaps the only devotion that I practice is the Jesus Prayer and the devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus Christ. But of course, to pray the Name and to ask for mercy is to, like St. John the Theologian at the Last Supper, draw close to the Heart of the Shepherd. Whatever icon I may have in mind as I pray the prayer (sorry - don't buy into the notion of imageless prayer entirely), I still sense a kinship with the Latins in the authentic expressions of the SHD, which does not include the sentimental imagery you mentioned.

This morning, in fact, as I prayed the First Hour, I was saying my prayers before a framed Russian icon of the Crucifixion (blessed by + Pope John Paul II of blessed memory) and focused mentally on the heart and side of Christ as I prayed my 40 Lord have mercy's. To me, such a practice is very much in the spirit of the SHD, and I found it to be quite a souce of peace.

But I have no plans to read the allocutions of St. Margaret Mary anytime soon, nor do I plan to immediately rush out and join the Sacred Heart Auto League.

[Linked Image]

http://www.shl.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AutoLeague

God bless and have a great day!

Gordo

Thanks, Ghosty, for the link!

As with most everything found on New Advent, it was very informative.

Gordo

I have gotten junk mail from them for years and have wondered whether or not I should take the organization seriously. Is it more than a device to raise funds for the sponsoring organization?

I am not sure. You are probably right. I think there was also a Spanish nun who received Sacred Heart apparitions.

I am well. All things are good. I am far happier in the job I have now (less money) as there is no politics and such that I really detest. There is a lot of peace available at the bottom of the corperate ladder

But I can see I have to re-learn to keep my cool at this board. You know how much it bothers me when anyone from any church attacks any other of the churches in theology or traditions.

I especially have no patience for authors and theologians who are simply masters of rhetoric. They seek applause (and money) and self-importance and in doing so they mislead so many people. Lack of conscience and lack of charity all glossed over with intellectual mumble jumble to dazzle the minds of others. I read almost no Catholic writers (feel free to point me to a good one) and know of only Bishop Kalistos Wares and my personal friend (the Russian Orthodox theologian now living in Lebanon) as fine representatives of the true spirit of Orthodoxy.

The earth is awash in worthless books written by theologians and those who wish they were theologians.

OK I got that out of my system

Anyway .. my own admiration for your own church remains great. I imagine it's troubles are not over ... but it remains a perfect example of how to act properly when under such strain. And you my friend - remain a fine example to me of solid spiritual growth.

-ray

I do not have a problem when a Latin Christian participates in what has become a devotional custom within his own Church, even if the practice seems a bit odd from an Eastern Christian perspective.

Thus, as far as devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus is concerned, I think that Easterners and Westerners should just . . . live and let live.

OK.. blind sided.

I am sure that his reward is great for fulfilling all his priestly duties. I am sorry I lost my cool over what may have been a tiny thing compared to all the rest of his work. If he wrote that two or three decades ago ... I can understand the context of the times. I thank God the churches are quickly moving past all that time of misunderstandings.

No doubt he is now in the church un-divided. May he pray for the rest of us.

-ray

Dear Stanislav,

We Orthodox might not have pictures of the heart, and yet if you read Saint Gregory Palamas, he keeps mentioning our 'nous', which basically is our heart. In other words the heart represents our love. By that standard, when the heart of Jesus is pictured, it represents the 'love' of Jesus.

The Latin Church has pictures of Jesus showing the heart; we don't. Since the devotion was given to the Catholics through a saint, then God must feel that a pictorial presentation would be more beneficial for the spiritual growth of some members in the Latin Church. Basically in the same way that we have icons. Remember, we had an iconoclastic movement in our Church, where all icons were eliminated for two centuries.

If God see's things differently for one Church and one people, than he does for the other Church and people, who are we to say differently.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Well said ! I have thought this for a long time.



Amen. That was beautifully said, Zenovia.

-- John

Wonderful points! I concur with John. Thanks, Zenovia!

Gordo