www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West What would you say?

Although I suspect being a bit of a know-it-all might border on sin at times, or at least border on annoyance, I am going to respond to one with as much charity as I can muster. I attend my Byzantine church which has Divine Liturgy on Sunday afternoons. I also play for 4 RC masses on Sunday morning. I love the organ, and one of my degrees is in organ, so I use that ability for good. I would say that if you don't have a Byzantine church in your area, do what the folks here did. Get off your behind and start one. It took 10 years of effort with some setbacks before the local RC bishop allowed one of his priests to obtain bi-ritual faculties. In the early days, we had maybe 3 or 4 Divine Liturgies a year, at most. Even today, we are not a full-fledged church but a Byzantine mission. But you have to start somewhere even it that start is smaller than you would like. It can be done.

That explains it. Your previous post led me to think soemthing else. I apologize if you think me a know-it-all. I only read closely and ask questions.

It would be an important decision to make if your Byzantine community got itself a priest who only offered services on Sunday morning. That would be a tough choice to make especially since you love playing the organ so much.

Eddie

St. Augustine addressed this question when his mother, St. Monica, was visiting Rome and wrote to him asking whther she should follow Roman liturgical customs or continue following Eastern customs. His oft quoted reply? "When in Rome, mother, do as the Romans do".

I don't know if they were properly "Eastern" customs; they were from further West than Rome, and weren't necessarily part of what we'd today call an Eastern Church (though most definately non-Latin).

Here's for a restoration of the "Berber Rite"

Peace and God bless!

Hi,
This is my first time writing in a forum, so I am praying that I am doing this right.
I was born and raised Roman Catholic and had never been exposed to the East at all. I had never paid much attention to icons before. I knew absolutely nothing about them.
One evening I began having beautiful dreams, but I was awake. It was not so much what I saw as it was this all-encompassing Love, a Love so deep within as well as without.
Within the next week or so, while homeschooling my boys, I came across an Icon that somewhat resembled what I had seen through the night, and in an instant I was surrounded and filled, overflowing in His Love. Mind you, I knew nothing about Icons at the time, nothing about the prayer involved, nothing about the richness of this "other Lung" the East which is so necessary for us to be whole. As I was filled to over-flowing with His Love, He placed in me such a longing for East and West to be One. When I receive Holy Communion I feel the separation, yet I feel the Brotherhood communion. I have this insatiable desire to learn about the Eastern Rite, not for what some would call conversion to EC, but that we may all be One in Him, because this is His desire. In Jesus' prayer to our Father, the desire was placed in our hearts...whether we recognize it or not, we cannot be One without each other.
I'm not very good at expressing myself. I hope this makes some kind of sense.
Peace in Christ,
Jeanne

Saint John Chrysostom said:

Homily 24 on 1st Corinthians, P.G. 61, 200).

Welcome to the forum! I'm very glad you are interested in Eastern Catholicism. I think you will find much on this forum to interest and enlighten you. There is so much more to the Catholic church than most people think. For instance---did you learn abou the number of churches there are in the Catholic churches? Did anyone teach you about the different Rites? Very few of the Roman Catholics I have met even knew there were different kind of Liturgies in the Roman Catholic Church. And they certainly didn't know that the RCC was one of 23 different churches in communion with the Pope! Don't be afraid to jump in and ask questions. The more questions, the better! You mentioned you homeschool your children--what would you tell them when they show an interest in someting? Follow your own advice!

In learning about the different Eastern churches, make sure you have a map handy. It will make things a bit easier. And check into history, period. The evolution of the church is fascinating--politics, greed and power all play a part. But I think the main drive is the desire to spread the "good news."

I don't know where you live, or how your family would feel, but if you can, try to visit as many Eastern churces as you can. Remember--attending Divine Liturgy (DL for short) at an Eastern church counts. There is no need to attend DL at an Eastern Church and mass at an RCC. Remember also that communion is different than you may be used to. Many Eastern churches use leavened bread cut into small squares and real wine mixed together, not the wafer you have been used to. If you aren't sure what to do when you go to a new church, simply ask! I'm sure anyone will be willing to answer questions. Talk to the priest ahead of time if you can, he'll explain things that will help make the entire experience much easier to understand.

I'm biased, but if there is a Byzantine Ruthenian church in your area, try that one on for size. It's my background, so I am biased as I said, but it is wonderful!

As we say in the Ruthenian Church--Slava Isusu Christu! (Glory to Jesus Christ!)

Slave Na Vi'ki! (Glory forever!)

Tim

When I was a Melkite, my priest suggested to me that we should do all of our eastern customs at the Latin rite Mass since it was a witness to the diversity of the Church. I honestly don't know if I agree or not. But, it isn't an issue for me any more. I do know of Latin priests who refused to commune our baptized and chrismated children because they were not 8 years old (age of 1st communion). On one ocassion, a priest did commune my children and apparently people in the parish complained. Their kids were crying, "it's not fair!" So you told us not to bring the children up for communion again.

We didn't have a byzantine Catholic church near us at the time, so we had no choice but to attend the Roman Church. The Church we pincipally attended had a wonderful priest who was very supporting. But, he was often out of town, or we were, and other priests were no supportive at all. Of course, the reaction of most priests was, "eastern rite?" "Huh?" "Are you guys Catholic?"

Joe

I don't expect that we will have a full-time Byzantine priest. We are lucky to have a bi-ritual priest who says the Latin Rite mass in the mornings for his own congregation. Our Byzantine mission is not large enough, nor does Pittsburgh have enough priests to send us a full-timer.

Just came across this quote from St Ambrose to St Augustine:

Sophia,

I basically agree. I will just say that both the eastern Christian at the western Mass and the western priest (also reverse it, western christian at eastern mass) should let charity be the rule.

If I were still Melkite, perhaps this would be my approach. At Mass, I would do nothing intentional that would distinguish myself from anyone else. After all, to do something different just because I am different might distract others away from Christ and onto my behavior. So, the Mass is not the place to educate western Christians that eastern Christians exist. Outside of the Mass is where that should happen.

I would conform to the liturgical practices of the Church I am in. Now, as an Orthodox, I have no problem crossing myself right to left, doing a metany instead of genuflecting, etc. But, I would not present myself to communion. Still, I would kneel at the consecration out of respect. And this is the most important thing, showing respect.

Personally, whether it was a valid Eucharist or not, I would consider kneeling at a Lutheran or Anglican eucharist out of respect for the sincerely offered prayers and the belief in the real presence manifested by the communicants. Differences are fine and well, but if they become a stumbling block then I should throw them away. Did not St. Paul say that there is nothing wrong with eating meat dedicated to idols? Yet, for the sake of the weaker brethren, he would not eat the meat, since it could cause them to stumble? When we are guests in another's home, we should be on our best behavior and we should try to avoid all that should cause offense, but should be complicit with everything that is morally allowable. So, in another's Church, we should conform to the extent that it is possible. If I were still in communion with Rome, I would conform to western customs when at the Roman Mass. I would still present my children for communion, though I would make every effort to notify and ask the priest beforehand.

Let us do all things in love.

Joe

When I told a Latin friend about making the sign of the cross at the mention of the Trinity he thought a minute and said he had read somewhere that technically Latins' are supposed to do the same. Anyone else heard that before?I'd have a hard time giving that one up in a Latin church, but if it proved distracting I'd try to be more inconspicuous before abandoning the practice completely.
Joe, what do Byzantine Catholics with chrismated children do if they have to attend a Roman church for many years? Do they eventually have the children confirmed so they can receive?

Indigo

A child who has been baptized and chrismated in an Eastern Catholic Church cannot be confirmed in the Roman Church. Chrismation and confirmation are the same sacrament, and in the Catholic Church, it is a sacrament that cannot be repeated. A chrismated Eastern Catholic, regardless of age, is eligible to receive communion in the Roman Catholic Church. Generally, I think it would be a good idea to speak with the priest prior to Mass, so as to avoid confusion while going forward for the child to receive. Also, there are some Roman Catholic priests who may not be aware of this.

Ryan

I cannot "conform to the liturgical practices of the Church I am in." I don't go out of my way to attract attention to myself, but I also do not want my children to lose their Eastern style of worship and pray that some day they will again live where they can participate in the Divine Liturgy regularly. Our local Roman Catholic priest has been very accomodating. He knows when we show up for Mass during the week that we are celebrating an Eastern holy day. For the Feast of the Ascension this year he was kind enough to do the associated readings; of course we heard them again at Mass on Sunday (the designated holy day in the RC diocese). I quietly recite the Byzantine version of the Creed and the Communion prayer. During Lent when we sing "Kyrie Eleison", I discretely replace one of the Lord Have Mercy's with a Hospodi Pomiluj. Only a lip reader would know and it feels right to pray as I always have.

Barbara

How wonderful that your priest tries to accomodate you and your family. I spoke with a nun whose family was eastern catholic but brought her up in a latin church because there were not eastern ctholic churches nearby. (This was probably 50 years ago) She said her family and the other eastern catholics let the priest know that they expected him to visit and bless their homes for Holy Theophany, and bless their easter baskets,so he did.