www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Bush spares Libby from jail term

Yes it does. Then we will replace our S.O.B. with your S.O.B, or maybe even another one of our S.O.B.s and the country will be the same or worse. Unfortunately, that seems to be the way it goes. I wonder what it would take to get a really good man to run for that office these days, and if one exists, would he consider it worth it?

The problem isn't if good men exist and are willing to do it. The problem is that they can't get the machine behind them. In today's world, one must have a Rep or Dem nomination and must have the media's attention. The legislature has worked hard to ensure we retain a two-party system. Perot made a huge splash for being as popular as he was. We are ripe for a multi-party system to emerge, but the machines will do everything they can to squash it.

You are right that both sides are equally involved in the illegal, immoral, machinations of politics. That's probably why Bush called it harsh, when it is the way the game is played up there but it rarely makes it into the news. They control things like that tightly from both ends. What Libby did is nothing compared to what all of them do to make it that far. Worse yet, the public doesn't care. All they want to know is what the media has determined in conjunction with the Dem or Rep parties what today's soundbite will be.

Read The Republic of Plato. In a truly just society, people would be fighting with one another in order to avoid holding office, not acquire it. Men would have to be forced to serve as rulers. But, alas, philosophers will never be kings. Socrates said, at his trial, that if he had made his business the public business of the courts, he would have perished very quickly. I don't see how a truly good man can be in politics.

Joe

Libby isn't the liar here. Joe Wilson is. This entire affair was manufactured by the Washington press corps and made out to be "as bad as Watergate".

It didn't seem to bother Valerie Plame to be seen on the cover of that magazine with Joe Wilson.

As for the CIA, it's been a mess on and off since the days of Senator Frank Church.

Yes, we have two parties. People need to stop expecting perfection and use their voices to influence one side or the other. Countries with three or more political parties don't have things any better and usually worse.

Now, now. Let us not forget Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon.

Fr. Serge

I want my king to be a continental philosopher. He will ask many questions and avoid the answers.

Just like Socrates ;o).

That is funny though and it is makes a good point about some of the most popular currents of continental philosophy.

Joe

My wife didn't think it was so funny.

"The people aren't killing you because you said the country should be ruled by a philosopher-king. It's because you kept clearing your throat." - Woody Allen's take on the death of Socrates (paraphrased, from the time when he was still funny).

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

If you read the declassified portions of the NIE, if anything, Bush understated the case they made that Saddam had WMDs and ties to terror.

Think Bush has honestly done as much "damage" to the CIA as the Church Committe; Carter's mass-scale free-firings under Stansfield Turner; Clinton's refusal to meet with his CIA director for years, covering up John Deutsch's compromising of the agency, and allowing Saddam to expel all U.S. intelligence agents from Iraq?

Bush's mistake was keeping Clinton's old hands on.

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

"Bush's mistake was keeping Clinton's old hands on."

It would be a very difficult process to have purged the CIA of Clinton's appointments. President Bush's "new tone" would not pursue such a task.

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm

Go here to this site to see the pardons of Bill Clinton at his 11th hour. Before we call Geroge Bush a criminal for his pardon, check out the list...of people like Marc Rich and Pincus Green.

Check out some of the undesirables that he pardoned who are drug dealers, tax evaders, convicted of rackateering, false statements before a grand jury (hmmm.....sounds familiar), armed bank robbers and the like...

It can be argued that Marc Rich paid for his pardon. Denise Rich, his ex-wife, donated $400,000-450,000 to the foundation organizing Clinton's presidential library before and during the time Jack Quinn (then a former counsel to Clinton) was petitioning the White House for the pardon.

There is an interesting transcript by which you can see some of the justifications Quinn made to congress for his pursuit of Marc Rich's pardon. (Transcript [transcripts.cnn.com])

More legal questions arise out of this pardon President Clinton made than the commuting of Scooter Libby's sentence. A stronger case can also be made in defense of Libby's conflicting testimonies than the tax evasion and sour business deals of Marc Rich.

that was then, this is now- what difference does it make if Clinton did something wrong 7 years ago? It is Bush we are dealing with now.

Libby lied under oath, he perjured himself. He deserved his conviction and sentence.

Point of fact, Libby did lie under oath- that is a crime. What is there to argue? It does not matter whether Bush or Wilson are right about the war, or what Clinton did 7 years ago.

Libby perjured himself. I don't feel sorry for him.

If we want honest politicians, than they all have to be held accountable, not just "your guy" or "my guy."

It does no good to compare relative merits of different cases.

Libby broke the law, plain and simple.