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Mar 25th, 2025
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It's so strange.
I know a bi-ritual Byzantine Catholic priest who also celebrates the Latin Mass.
I thought the whole purpose of this MP was to allow priests to say the Latin Mass unhindered, but it looks like the Bishop has the final say as before. What has changed if anything? We still don't know what control, if any, the Bishops will have. The document hasn't been released publically yet. Peace and God bless!
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Black humor before business - I was just shocked a few minutes ago to read a US newspaper article (now on Google) stating that the Tridentine Mass does not use wine! What shall we hear of next?
Now to business - I've not yet seen the text of the Motu Proprio either, but I assume that the Holy Father is making judicious use of both stick and carrot. He knows full well that many bishops have been stubbornly refusing to grant permission for the Tridentine Mass under the terms of the two indults of Pope John Paul II, so I shall be surprised if the Motu Proprio does not make it much more difficult for the bishops to refuse any reasonable request.
The Pope also knows that the Lefebvrists and others strongly want a separate administration (vicariates, prelatures, or call it what you will) of their own, so as to exempt them from the local Novus Ordo bishop. And the Pope knows that the local bishops want such a structure even less than they want wider authorization for the Tridentine Mass.
Therefore, by broadening the use of the Tridentine Mass and related services, while retaining the individual dioceses intact, the Pope will appear to give the local bishops the opportunity to grasp the point that the Tridentine Mass is not going to go away, while also pressuring the bishops to be generous in giving permission for it under conditions at which the Motu Proprio will at least hint - and retaining the possibility of conceding a separate extra-diocesan structure in the event of a genuine reconciliation of the Lefebvrists, or also in the event of obstinate bishops here and there who might continue to refuse any and all requests for the Tridentine Mass. It's a delicate balance - but since the local bishops are already up in arms opposing the Motu Proprio, it obviously gives some important gains for those of us who support liturgical pluralism.
Fr. Serge
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Later . . . it seems that the only regular celebration of the Tridentine Mass in the Archdiocese of Detroit is in St. Josaphat's Church! Perhaps it's a Polish parish?
Fr. Serge
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It's so strange.
I know a bi-ritual Byzantine Catholic priest who also celebrates the Latin Mass.
I thought the whole purpose of this MP was to allow priests to say the Latin Mass unhindered, but it looks like the Bishop has the final say as before. What has changed if anything? You raise the key issue, I think. In some places the bishops have been anything but generous. However, there are places like my area where the RC bishop has been quite generous in allowing the Traditional Latin Mass. It shouldn't vary so much from place to place.
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I don't understand why they are so threatened by it. If there are enough people to support a community, why not grant it to them? If it is so popular that it grows, well then that's what your people want. I'm not grasping the reasoning to forbid it.
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It's a bureaucratic obsession - in fact two bureaucratic obsessions. First, there must be uniformity at all costs! Allowing people any semblance of a choice is "divisive", "tribalist", and who knows what else. Second, allowing people - even a relatively small minority - to opt out of the Novus Ordo might be taken to mean that the reform process went wrong, which to the bureaucratic mind is clearly unthinkable.
Just in case someone thinks I'm agreeing with such views, I am stating them; I certainly do not endorse them!
Fr. Serge
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According to an article in today's Corriere della Sera, the Vatican is to publish the Motu Proprio in the course of the weekend. Take that for what it's worth.
Fr. Serge
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I find it odd that there is discussion about the motu proprio here on the Board - as (in my humble opinion it has nothing to do with Eastern Christianity), but here's my two cents:
There is a small, but noisy and growing, group who want a return to Tradition in the Latin Church. I, for one, am tired of ugly church architecture, Holy Communion given out by every Tom, Dick and Harriett, altar "servers" wearing thong sandals, bad - very bad "music" (a pox on Marty Haugen) and a lack of respect and reverence for the Holy Eucharist. When I make it to the Latin Mass at St. Boniface in Pittsburgh, I don't experience any of that nonsense. I worship in the Mass that was celebrated while two thirds of the Western Hemisphere was being evangelized for Jesus Christ.
Archbishop Burke of St. Louis, Bishop Bruskewicz of Lincoln and Bishop Olmstead of Phoenix are big supporters of the TLM. I think that the TLM has relevance for Eastern Catholics because it will force the Latins to consider in a real way both unity and variety. It is the past disconsideration of variety that has done so much harm to byzantine catholicism and to the prospects of renewed full communion with the Orthodox Churches. But we should be prepared to make the most of the opportunity and not just cheer on our favored faction.
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The Guardian in England is also reporting that the Motu Proprio will be issued on Saturday. Take that for what it's worth.
This matter is of great importance to us, for a most immediate and practical reason - it will strengthen the hand of those of us who insist that we must be allowed to maintain the traditional Divine Liturgy in the face of the revised version currently being imposed.
Fr. Serge
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The Guardian in England is also reporting that the Motu Proprio will be issued on Saturday. Take that for what it's worth.
This matter is of great importance to us, for a most immediate and practical reason - it will strengthen the hand of those of us who insist that we must be allowed to maintain the traditional Divine Liturgy in the face of the revised version currently being imposed.
Fr. Serge Father Bless !!! Indeed, Saturday may look like a fine day for us who prefer the traditional liturgy !!!
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The Blessing of the Lord!
It appears that someone has leaked the text of the Motu Proprio, and perhapss the cover letter - check the "Whispers in the Loggia" blog for details.
Fr. Serge
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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The Guardian in England is also reporting that the Motu Proprio will be issued on Saturday. Take that for what it's worth.
This matter is of great importance to us, for a most immediate and practical reason - it will strengthen the hand of those of us who insist that we must be allowed to maintain the traditional Divine Liturgy in the face of the revised version currently being imposed.
Fr. Serge One can only hope and pray. Dn. Robert
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Here's a link to an interesting Latin parish that utilizes the tradition Latin rite while in communion with Rome. Seems like a dynamic place! http://www.materecclesiae.org/God grant many years to Pope Benedict for his efforts to reform the reform! I feel, though, that the Latin Church may be in for a bit of a bumpy ride while they assimilate the change. Gordo
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Dear Gordo,
What a beautiful church and reverend religious community! THAT is what I remember my friends' and neighbors' Catholicism being when I was a young girl...
The seriousness of this parish, and the reverence it displays, is much more inline with Orthodox parishes too.
I thought this was interesting:
Dress Code We want to foster the greatest reverence and respect for Our Lord at Mater Ecclesiae. Our attire is an outward expression of our love for the Lord and shows how important He is to us. It is also a sign of our respect for the House of God. Therefore, one should always wear their �Sunday Best� to Mass: modesty, good taste and common sense should prevail. Accordingly, the following rules apply:
NO SHORTS, EVER, FOR MEN, WOMEN OR CHILDREN
� Women: No revealing clothing, low necklines, short skirts or bare midriffs. Please dress modestly with dignity and self-respect � It is highly suggested that women , as is the traditional custom, wear a head covering in church.
� Men: No tattered, soiled work clothes, old jeans or gym clothes. Please wear �business or business casual attire� to set a good example for our young men and boys.
Date: May 16, 2007
It is funny, because, although some (a very few, if any) Greek Orthodox women may wear pants to Sunday morning Divine Liturgy, it is usually the Roman Catholic spouses and friends who do and they are always discernable as not being Orthodox MOSTLY because of that...
My disclaimer to the above is, so as not to be hypocritical: small, intimate services (without a choir) which usually get a low attendance, like Paraclisis, Presanctified liturgy, etc. are generally casual, and most Orthodox women present do wear pants or more casual clothes because of the hour of the day.
Alice
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