www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Vesperal Liturgy broadcast

Listened to some of the chant on the http://metropolitancantorinstitute.org/ and it sounded beautiful and makes me wonder what all the ruckus is about this "new" music. Frankly all the talk about "accents" etc. goes over my head not knowing anything about music but this is performed well and sounds better than "correct" music sung by singers with bad voices. I hope that some of this rubs off on the Orthodox. Some OCA parishes could benefit.

One of the tips Professor Thompson gave us when he visited earlier this year was that instead of me-rrrr-cy we should sing something that sounds more like "mussy." To the ear, it it's recognizable as mercy, but sounds better. The Lo-ho-ho-hord is also easily fixed by simply singing it as the single syllable which it is.

Thanks for your comments Steve.

It is interesting to hear them - you are after all a Cantor using the same settings .

It has to be remembered that I am UGCC and hear and participate in a DL entirely in Ukrainian therefore I am not used to hearing DL in English, never mind using different Chant settings.


Now for my reactions to the latest broadcast.

I felt the opening to the programme was much better - hearing Cathedral Bells after the Czech Band and adverts did help to 'set the scene'

Imagine my surprise this week when I heard Psalm 103 - wonderful.

I'm glad that the mics seemed a bit better placed - it was nice to hear the congregation , I was almost sorry when the balance was audibly changed so we got the Clergy and Cantor first and the congregation waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back .

Yes the intrusive 'H's were still there and though it was a pleasure hearing a Deacon 'in action' [ we do not have one ] I did feel he was 'dominating' things - somehow he 'stood out' and I'm sure this is not what is intended.

Please would a singer take the cantor on one side and teach him how to avoid those 'h's getting in - they really really grate. You know ,there is a big difference between reading and chanting so that everyone can hear, and reading and chanting to give a performance so that everyone knows you are doing these things. This is the difference between the vocal textures we could hear - it should not be 'forced '- and at times it was

To me pacing this week was much better - there were far fewer 'severely dragged' things - speed was more appropriate - and possibly because this aspect had been thought about, then that was why Psalm 103 was included. There was no feeling that at times we were really rushing to fit everything possible in , chalk and cheese compared with the last 2 weeks.

Now the Homily - a personal comment here - I do NOT like being told the title of the homily - and I was not impressed by this one - just a personal thing .

Now a couple of generalistations - why are so many of the chants so mournful ? I really felt no compulsion to join in and sing . Will chant like this really attract people ?

I can think back to my first days attending DL - I was longing to join in the chant - people were singing from their hearts - I can't really feel this applies to those in Parma - sorry if it offends - I'm the outsider looking in .

I appreciate that for most Parishes it's still early days using the new DL and musical settings - but again I really must emphasis - this is coming from a Cathedral and it should have a considerably higher standard than most Parishes - they have been doing these weekly broadcasts for how long ? By now - even with the new stuff with which to contend, we should be hearing what could almost be termed 'a polished performance' and with the exception of the Deacon who, in my mind , was giving a performance rather than serving in the Liturgy, what we heard were Clergy and Cantor not really at home with this - they seemed to be struggling.

I will be interested to see how this improves over the coming weeks - but I'm not rushing to get a plane ticket , cope with all the extra security , and come over for a weekend just to see and hear for myself

Actually a good deacon does precisely that - he stands out and he dominates the service, meaning that his is the most prominent and observable role, and he is the "master of ceremonies", so to speak.

Where the rubrics are observed instead of ignored, much of the time the priest is nearly unseen, since he is within the Altar and the Royal Doors are closed, while the Deacon is on the soleas intoning the petitions of the synaptes, ektenes, aiteseis, and so forth. The Deacon proclaims the Gospel (preferably in the center of the nave) while the priest awaits the completion at the High Place, where again he is not fully visible.

One could explore the significance of all this at length. I confine myself to one comment for the moment: many priests (although they will deny it) prefer not to have a deacon, for fear that the deacon will "upstage" them.

Fr. Serge

I heard it and really found it quite good. I'll review it in more detail in the fall.
Rufinus

Rufinus

Do we really have to wait till fall for your review ?

I'm eagerly awaiting your review since you have been studying this

The Fall?! I do hope you have either an incredible memory or a recording of the service.

_____
ا ربي يسوع المسيح،يا ابن الله،ارحمنا نحن الخطأة

I want to listen to it again a couple of times. (I had internet issues that broke up the transmission.)

Here is a remarkable article on the role of the deacon.

http://72.14.209.104/custom?q=cache:iECnr-HQ1dYJ:orthodoxyinfo.org/Diaconate.htm+prospherein&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=37&gl=us

If I may, on behalf of Deacons: thank you.

With humility of course, and to foster attentiveness to prayer; yes, thank you...

Indeed, yes, and thank you...

... thank you ...

... thank you for your candid appraisal, for all you�ve said.

In reading this I recall the writings of Met. John Zizioulas on the identification and role of the orders in the Church, the Eucharistic Community (21)*:



He continues (21):



And this is intimately link with (250)



and that (193)



Of that ordination he writes (216):



And so (221),



How sad then for a Church who�s priests � those who are to be respected since they are placed at the head of the eucharistic community by delegation, presbuteroi, by right, episkopos � who�s priests would �prefer not to have� �all orders [that] are necessary as constitutive elements,� orders that are as Zizioulas also says �decisive� and �indispensable.�

Dn. Anthony


* Page numbers here and below are from John D. Zizioulas, Being as Communion (Crestwood: St.Vladimir�s Seminary Press, 1993).

Dear Father Deacon,

Thank you - it's nice to be appreciated! Please come serve in Dublin sometime (if you can manage the unabbreviated and unrevised Divine Liturgy).

Fr. Serge

Dear Fr. Serge,

You are most welcome, and thank you for the invitation. I mentioned a few years ago to two priest friends that I would like at least once in my life, somewhere, to experience the liturgy as it is handed on to us in the Ruthenian Recension (for instance, essentially as in the 1965 Liturgicon). It now appears that Dublin may indeed be the most likely place for me to do so.

Dn. Anthony

You know, I'm thinking if Father Keleher can have that kind of experience in Dublin, why can't we have it here in America? Maybe we should ask our various parish priests to do a DL the way it was done. I don't know if many priests can do the entire DL in Slaconic, but if there are some who can, and I'm sure there are, maybe we could arrange for a service at sometime in the future and if people can make it, great. I know we are all geographically separated, but maybe those of us in the Pittsburgh Metropolia can find a "centrally located" area and see if we can do exactly that? Would people want to attend such a DL? I know I would. And I would be happy to check around and see if we could find someone to do the service.

Unless, of course, we all want to get together and fly to Dublin!

Just an idea, but we keep talking about it, why not DO it?

Tim

Isn't this thread supposed to be dedicated to the radio broadcast of the RDL?

Wow. Another topic turned into a cry room.

Not really - folk have been talking about the Radio broadcast - and many seem to indicate that they have not liked it.

Some are bemoaning the loss of the use of Slavonic - and that was evident in the Broadcasts.

Are people not allowed to put forward their thoughts on this topic ?

I'm still wondering why it's going to take till the Fall for you to post your comments on the Broadcast - I presume it will be on this Sunday as before . May I hope to see your comments by midweek ?