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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: May 2007
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I did not say only Protestants are divided.
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Exactly! Sinful people are the bane to Christianity.
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I replied to you statemenmt that "Protestants are not uniform in their approach to faith" My reply was in regard to the issue of uniformity and thta this statement was a stand-alone statement - even separated from the previoius paragraph.
Eddie
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This statement does sadden me not so much for restating Catholic teaching but for the way it is stated whereas the Second Vatican Council in "Lumen Gentium" is much more positive.
I fear this will harm ecumenical relations with the Orthodox Church and it looks like playing up to the SSPX people in order to get them back into Communion as ecumenism and the teaching on religious liberty by Vat II is one of their bugbears.
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EdHash, NICOLE WINFIELD on what "Pope" said: Pope: Other Christians not true churches By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070710/ap_on_re_eu/pope_other_christians"Pope" on what "Pope" said: It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them. EdHash, NICOLE WINFIELD on what "Pope" said: Pope: Other Christians not true churches
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer
... Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches. Search results of Document [ 212.77.1.245] . Search on "defective." No hits. Search on "true." One hit: Fourth Question: Why does the Second Vatican Council use the term "Church" in reference to the oriental Churches separated from full communion with the Catholic Church?
Response: The Council wanted to adopt the traditional use of the term. "Because these Churches, although separated, have true sacraments and above all � because of the apostolic succession � the priesthood and the Eucharist, by means of which they remain linked to us by very close bonds"13, they merit the title of "particular or local Churches"14, and are called sister Churches of the particular Catholic Churches Who do you believe? Dn. Anthony
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And, keep in mind too that it is not we Orthodox who brought up, again, this issue of papal primacy and the nature of the Church. It is Rome taking the initiative to remind everyone that it is necessary (from Rome's point of view) that to be the Church of Christ in the fullest sense, a Church must be in communion with (under the governing authority of...) the Pope of Rome. What is the comparable teaching/position of the Orthodox Churches with regard to the Catholic Church (and other Christians)? Dn. Anthony
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Will the Catholic Church take the writer of the article to the tool shed?
Eddie
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Look for the word "defects".
The article is really not misrepresenting what is being said in the document.
Last edited by AMM; 07/10/07 02:30 PM.
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Would it then be fair to say that you are not interested in dialogue that is designed to seek understandings about one another and ourselves that are acceptable to all? I don't think I can answer the question the way it is framed.
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Joe,
Like you, I welcome the document, if for different reasons. It is a much-needed clarification that normative Catholic teaching has not changed.
For whatever reason, many seem to have come to view some of the vagueness, ambiguity, and lack of comprehensive elucidation found in some of the Second Vatican Council pronouncements as representing major shifts in Catholic teaching. I think this is untrue, and any attempt to interpret SVC without it being in full organic continuity to the normative Deposit of Faith is wrongheaded.
For that matter, I would think the the issues here are more than just the papacy.
I think you have summed up the parameters of the situation quite well, accurately, and honestly.
Best,
Robster
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Look for the word "defects".
The article is really not misrepresenting what is being said in the document. Results of search on "defect." "It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church"12.
12 SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL, Decree Unitatis redintegratio, 3.4.
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Suffer from defects = defective.
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Grateful Member
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There's nothing new here. http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0703923.htmIt says the Protestants shouldn't be called sister churches and should be called Christian communities. It says the Orthodox are the only others who may be called a Church, but that they still don't have the fullness of Catholicism without unity with the Pope. What else would you expect the Catholic Church to say? What I expect the Catholic Church to say is of no consequence. What Cardinal Ratzinger --now Pope Benedict-- says matters a lot. And what he is saying, in effect, is that the Roman Church will not compromise its beliefs including its beliefs about itself. In short, this means that he in enforcing discipline within the Catholic Church; and it also means that it is up to other churches whether they will compromise their beliefs or not. -- John
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Will the Catholic Church take the writer of the article to the tool shed?
Eddie I think someone should take the author to a writing class with an emphasis on truth in journalism. Dn. Anthony
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Suffer from defects = defective. More precisely: suffer from defects = suffer from defects Nuance, context, integrity of the text.
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