|
Forums26
Topics35,521
Posts417,615
Members6,171
| |
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180
Orthodox Christian Member
|
|
Orthodox Christian Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,180 |
In Los Angeles, many Byzantine Catholics and Melkites have been re-confirmed and given First Holy Communion in the Latin Rite.
One Melkite lady was required to be confirmed even though she was chrismated as a baby. This was before she could marry in St. Charles Borromeo Church in North Hollywood in 1995.
I do not know if the situation has been changed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476 |
In Los Angeles, many Byzantine Catholics and Melkites have been re-confirmed and given First Holy Communion in the Latin Rite.
One Melkite lady was required to be confirmed even though she was chrismated as a baby. This was before she could marry in St. Charles Borromeo Church in North Hollywood in 1995. Ugh! Mahoney! This would never have happened under Manning, McIntyre, or Cantwell as the Latin Rite priests would have been better instructed. In the past it was common for the local Spanish clergy to chrismate right after baptism due being so far from a bishop (when it was still the Diocese of the Two Californias, and later the Diocese of Monterey-Los �ngeles which encompassed most of American California). Unless this has changed in the last ten years, I believe Latin Rite pastors still have this faculty to-day in the Archdiocese of Los �ngeles.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38 |
Dear Byzantine TX,
Yes, that is so totally unfortunate.
Ultimately, while RC's and EC's are in communion with one another, it is best for us to just stay away from Latin Catholic parishes and schools for the most part to avoid that sort of situation that can be most disturbing, especially to children.
Alex
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,045
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,045 |
Friends,
I have a serious question -- although I will not give any names or place markers, this is a question that has arisen out of a situation confronting one of my dear friends.
This particular person is Eastern Catholic but is caught in the situation where there is no nearby Eastern Catholic Church to attend. Being pious, this person attends the nearby Latin Catholic Church for Mass. On the way out of Mass recently, the priest of the parish was waiting for my friend and pulled my friend aside. In essence, my friend was confronted by this priest and told to stop acting "Eastern" during Mass. My friend was told to stop making the sign of the cross in the "Eastern" way, told to only make the sign of the cross at the beginning and end of Mass and not when the name of the Trinity is mentioned, was told that my friend had to genuflect before entering the pew, etc. Essentially, this priest said that my friend had to confirm in all externals to the Latin piety. He even suggested that my friend should "pray" about not coming anymore to Mass.
Would should I tell my friend to do? At this point, my friend has just stopped going to Mass but given my friend's situation I do not think this is the long-term solution.
One more point: my friend has always been eastern Catholic and does not know (even if my friend wanted to) how to be "Latin" in externals. thank GOD that not every Latin Priest is such an ignorant boob. as there is no EC parish in Chattanooga, I attend a Latin parish I have had no problems with the way I sign my self (Eastern), bow before entering my pew, or anything else. both pastor and Bishop have been quite accepting. but don't stay away from the Sacraments, folks. whether by Latin or Eastern Priest, you need these Holy Mysteries in your life. Much Love, Jonn
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476 |
Ultimately, while RC's and EC's are in communion with one another, it is best for us to just stay away from Latin Catholic parishes and schools for the most part to avoid that sort of situation that can be most disturbing, especially to children. [sarcasm] Yes. That seems sound. This way us Latins will never have any contact with the Eastern Catholics, thereby eliminating any chance for mutual education. [/sarcasm] What are you thinking?!!! Unless you are trying to play the part of the agent provocateur... 
Last edited by Byzantophile; 01/04/08 04:24 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38 |
Dear Byzantophile,
No, just reflecting on my own experiences in this regard. RC's can be very authoritarian when it comes to these things and so it is better to just stay away from them rather than have to be under them and obey them when following Latin traditions come at one as a direct command.
This has nothing to do with talking with RC's etc.
And RC's can be predisposed against education on topics regarding Eastern Christianity. Some just don't want to know and so dialogue or education is rather useless.
Either the RC Church takes the EC Churches seriously and educates its faithful about their brothers and sisters who are in union with them, or it does not.
My father often counselled me to run, and not walk, past RC monasteries when one could hear the Gregorian chant. Those were based on his experiences under RC political control in the old country.
Alex
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476 |
Just curious, what country is he from?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38 |
He was from Ukraine and grew up under RC rule.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476 |
It was my understanding that there are VERY few Roman Rite Catholics in Ukraine.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 476 |
In addition, why would Roman Catholics have jurisdiction over the Ukrainian Catholics? Was this something peculiar to the Communist years?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505 |
This should have never taken place! It is actually forbidden to do such a thing.
Obviously whomever was in charge was in ignorance.
Stephanos I
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1 |
Dear Stephanos,
The trouble is that this may be a case of invincibleignorance! There are Latins who come occasionally to our Divine Liturgy in Dublin; they usually behave themselves quite nicely.
Fr. Serge
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38 |
Dear Byzantophile, Well, prior to World War II, the city of Lviv was about half Polish - I assume there would be some RC's among them.  Later, having moved to Poland, one also needed to change one's baptismal certificate to read: "Roman Catholic" rather than "Greek Catholic" in order to simply be successful at obtaining a job (as a number of my wife's family did). That was a common occurrence. Alex
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405 Likes: 38 |
Bless, Father Archimandrite, Does not invincible ignorance absolve one of any moral culpability? Alex
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,036 Likes: 4
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,036 Likes: 4 |
Actually, that was me. Why I missed so many posts in this thread is beyond me . . . (probably being stuck using Windows ) [Though, if I'd actually joined an Eastern church ten years earlier . . . ] I was appalled when someone back in Pennsylvania approvingly told of a prior Monsignor who had refused to attend the consecration of the Byzantine church in DuBois, rejecting them as not being Catholic. Father bless!! I grew up not far from Dubois and if you tell me the time frame I can almost guess who this man was. It might be the same man who refused to do any of the liturgical changes. {horror clipped} I don't know the time frame, but I believe that it was the the consecration of Nativity of the Mother of God (the BC church), and the pastor of St. Catherine's. Sadly some people just don't "get it." There's a joke about Heaven that this reminds me of and I'll type it out and send it to you when I get a chance. I tend to enjoy those . hawk
|
|
|
|
|
