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While I fully agree that the Vatican archives should be completely open (some of them already are) to competent scholars (that limitation is needed for the practical reason that it would be hopelessly inconvenient to turn the archives into a tourist attraction for all and sundry), the implied parallel between the KGB archives and the Moscow Patriarchate archives on one hand and the Vatican archives on the other is unjustified. There is abundant evidence to show that the KGB was systematically involved in the persecution of religion in the Soviet era, and there is sufficient evidence to show that the Moscow Patriarchate is to a significant degree complicit in that persecution. There is no reason at all to expect to find that the Vatican was actively persecuting religion in the twentieth century.

Well within living memory the Moscow Patriarchate made good use of service-books and other religious literature published in Church-Slavonic and Russian by the Holy See, as well as accepting unconsecrated antimensia AND the holy relics of martyrs, with which to consecrate the antimensia, likewise from the Holy See - with my own eyes I have seen such antimensia on the Holy Table of any number of churches of the Moscow Patriarchate during the last decade of the Soviet period. I could continue at some length listing acts of kindness done by the Holy See and at the direct request of the Holy See in support of the Moscow Patriarchate.

Fr. Serge

I rather wish you would. Not that I don't believe you, in fact I do... Its just rather nice to be reminded how friendly we can be after a long hard day of poking each other in the eye with sticks online. (Not so much here, but in another forum I participate in, well it ain't so pretty.)

Sometimes it is good to hear more about things such as this.

The only "implied parallel" between the two has been made by the previous poster. Simply suggesting mutual transparency is not an implication of anything, much less of equal guilt, but a call to fair and open historical transparency. The meaning of "competent scholars", which at best is a subjective thing, would need to be defined more precisely to alleviate any remaining suspicions of access to information.

Certainly Rome did provide assistance to the MP during Soviet times as well, whether through herself or other RC organizations such as Fr. Werenfried's well known activities. But to make statement such as "no reason to suspect" on one hand or "complicit" on the other carry much more weight when actually supported by relevant historical documentation. I will continue to agree with my Orthodox brother Borislav on this issue.

As a librarian, I would like to make a point that is often not considered in calls to open archives to the general public. It costs a great deal of money to provide materials in useful forms while still preserving the originals. The Vatican is digitizing parts of its collection but that will take many years and cost a bundle. It's not as easy as flinging open the doors and letting everyone in.

Well, let's see. The Vatican arranged funding and scholarships for students from the Moscow Patriarchate and other Orthodox Churches in Eastern Europe to do graduate theological studies both in Rome and at other major theological faculties in the West. The Vatican also from time to time, at the request of the Moscow Patriarchate, sent professors to lecture at, for example, the Saint Petersburg Theological Academy - at Vatican expense.

To the very present day, Aid to the Church in Need (a Catholic charity closely connected to the Holy See) provides substanial assistance to the Moscow Patriarchate.

And so on.

Fr. Serge

The fact that some members of the Moscow Patriarchate were forced to cooperate with the KGB that threatened to destroy the very fabric of Orthodoxy in the Soviet Union proves absolutely nothing. In fact the Ukrainian Catholic Church was closed down mainly because of its pro-Nazi anti Communist stance by the GOVERNMENT. The fact that the Russian Orthodox Church did nothing to stop this means very little. Even the fact that many in the ROC supported this means nothing. The ROC itself was a victim of the Soviets to an equal degree as teh Greek Catholic Church, and I assure you had it taken the Pro-Gereman stance the Catholics did, ROC would have been closed down completely. To sit here and smear the Venerable ROC is shameful. Apecially when there are so many allegations being made against the Roman Catholic Church. For example RC Clergy in Poland cooperating with the Polish Communists and even plotting the murder of some Prominent anti-Communists Priests in Poland, or the Catholic failure to speak out against Nazism, or the failure to address the Abuse in the Roman Catholic Church in the USA and a myriad of other things.

In other words, let the Russian Orthodox Church address the problems of the past without sticking your nose into their business. ROC is adressing its problems, be it with the Old Believers or ROCOR they have been able to reconcile and heal. Roman Catholics and Greek Catholics need to stop trying to decide what the ROC should or should not do. Although I may disagree with certain policies of the MP, I think they are capable of fixing slight problems that still exist today. After being under attack from Satanists for nearly 100 years they seem to be doing a fine enough job.

Let's not forget the following teaching of the Lord.

<And why do you take note of the grain of dust in your brother's eye, but take no note of the bit of wood which is in your eye?>

Fr. Serge, repeatedly attacks the ROC without providing a shred of evidence, thus I seriously doubt his allegation of the Vatican funding the MP.

Unfortunately I cannot agree with Borislav's statements above.

"In fact the Ukrainian Catholic Church was closed down mainly because of its pro-Nazi anti Communist stance by the GOVERNMENT."

This is completely unfounded; several Greek Catholic priests including Metropolitan Sheptytsky himself assisted Jewish refugees. Hardly something a Nazi would do. From Rabbi David Kahana:

And from Dr. Curt Levin, a prominent L'viv rabbi:
One must face reality - the Greek Catholic Church was shut down because it was seen as a threat to the athiestic Soviet regime. The liquidation of the Church in 1946 in no way could be attributable to sympathy with Germany, which was destroyed by that time. That is demonstrable from multiple GOVERNMENT documents of the time.

The MP was not liquidated because it was no longer a threat after the Sergian capitulation. I don't need to demonstrate that - numerous ROCOR articles over the years document that much better. I would hope for more informed discussion and less polemic.

Metropolitan Andrea Sheptysky was a wonderful person, but that does not prove that the Ukrainian Catholic Church as a whole was not pro German. I am not saying this in an attempt to call Catholics Nazis. This is 100% false, but I believe that under the pressure of the EVIL SOVIET Government many in the Catholic Church were led to believe that the Germans were a better alternative. This proved partially true, when the Germans allowed the opening of Churches that were closed. Many Ukrainian Catholic and even Orthodox Churches were very friendly to the Germans. Perceiving this as a threat, the SOVIET GOVERNMENT closed these Churches as soon as they had a chance. We all know that Stalin was paranoid and He probobly believed that the anti-Soviet Catholic Church would have continued to subvert the Communist Party. Thus you are partially right. They were viewed as a threat to the USSR. The Orthodox on the other hand stood firmly with the Russian people thus they were not perceived as a threat.

Point is, it was the SOVIET GOVERNMENT, and NOT ROC that closed the Ukrainian Catholic Church.

It should be remembered that Ukraine had already endured the Holodomor instigated by Moscow in the early 1930s as well as multiple local pogroms, well before the Germans even showed up at the border.

After loosing all of the family farms and millions of people due to the Holodomor famine and Bolshevik collectivization, some Ukrainians did indeed choose to see the Germans as the lesser of evils ten years later.

I agree Father Deacon, read my post above I edited it.

Did Ukrainians, AT FIRST, welcome the Germans? Sure they did. The Germans were seen - mistakenly - as liberators. Western Ukraine did not invite Soviet occupation. (BTW, many Sovoks tend to forget Moscow originally co-operated with Germany, but that often gets swept under the rug. Guess that makes Molotov, Stalin, et al. Nazi collaborators.)

I still can't understand how one can think that the head of the UGCC was OK but the Church he was responsible for acted in contradiction to him.

EDIT
As I was composing my post Borislave elaborated on his original...

I am not condemning the Ukrainian Catholic Church my friend, I am simply explaining why the Soviets believed they had to close it.

Surely you don't expect them to allow its existence after open support of the Nazis.

Heck, I would be tempted to close a Church for supporting the enemy in time of war, nevermind Stalin.

All I am saying is stat blaming Stalin and stop blaming ROC which was a VICTIM of the Communists.

Everyone has their own TRUTH.

26 of my Jewish family members were massacred in Baby Yar in Kyiv.

How should I feel about the Nazis?

Are you denying any involvement of the ROC in the liquidation of UGCC?

Absolutely, ROC is not to blame.

There were individuals in ROC that welcomed this act, but as a whole ROC is not guilty.
Had there not been a Soviet Government, the Ukrainian Catholic Church would have never been closed.

Dear Borislav,

I agree with your statement here, at least partially.

I believe that it is not entirely fair to criticize the Orthodox Church for persecution of the Greek Catholics during the Soviet era, as the Orthodox Church was itself persecuted and pressured, and co-opted by force.

However, I have been disappointed with the attitude of some Orthodox to the recent re-emergence of the Greek Catholic Churches from the catacombs.

If contemporary Orthodox Christians disavow their Church's part in the liquidation of the Greek Catholic Church in Eastern Europe during the Soviet era, than, these same Orthodox should be willing to respect our right to exist, agree to the peaceful return of confiscated Church property, and should work with us to have peaceful, friendly relationships, even if we cannot be in communion at the present.

I think we can all agree that the Soviet system really stressed our churches Orthodox and Catholic, and I would say Satan used the Soviet persecution to put suspicion for each other in our hearts.

We will all have to follow the Christ, in a path of mutual forgiveness and repentance. We need to act more Christ-like to each other; conflicts between us, especially times when they have even turned violent, damage our mutual witness to the gospel.

Forgiveness means that both sides need to let go of real hurts and betrayal, and also, to demonstrate by our current actions our love and acceptance of each other.