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Joined: Jan 2007
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I lived in : Ukraine, Russia, Italy and Austria. I can tell you without any doubt or hesitation that America is by far the best place to live in with the most opportunity to excel and the BEST health care system, contrary to the propaganda of the socialist Michael Moore.

What countries have you lived in?

Where do you get your information and upon what facts exactly do you base your statements?






Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 07/12/07 07:23 PM.
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AthanasiusTheLesser
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I have made no statements-one way or the other-that compare the quality of life in the USA to other countries. What I did say is that the countries that have social welfare programs and progressive taxation are generally those with the highest standard of living, and I include the USA in that group. I might agree with what you say about "best place to live with the most opportunity to excel" in reference to the USA. However, having worked a number of years in health care, I do not believe we have the best health care system, and I held this belief long before I ever even heard of Michael Moore.

Ryan

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Originally Posted by Subdeacon Borislav
I lived in : Ukraine, Russia, Italy and Austria. I can tell you without any doubt or hesitation that America is by far the best place to live in with the most opportunity to excel and the BEST health care system, contrary to the propaganda of the socialist Michael Moore.

What countries have you lived in?

Where do you get your information and upon what facts exactly do you base your statements?

Dear Borislav,

With all due respect, you are not the only person I know who has lived in other countries, including some of the ones you mention. There are good and bad things about living in any country. I have friends who may enjoy living here, but thought the health care system and educational system was better in other places. I have other friends who think as you do.

The U.S. has 47 million people uninsured, and has been ranked only 37 in health care. Nothing to be proud of at least in that one category. Again, I think that is unbecoming for a modern, industrial country that is ostensibly a "Christian" country.

And even if we do in some sense live in the best country, why can't we make it even better?

Finally, to me socialism is not necessarily a bad word- it depends on what we mean by "socialism."

If by socialism you mean Castro, Stalin, Mao, the Khrmer rouge, than yes, that kind of socialism is very bad (and some democratic socialists would argue that they were not true socialists- they were not democratic at all, but a kind of fascism of the Left, a state capitalist system). This kind of socialism, that persecuted our fellow Eastern Christians in Eastern Europe, is indeed Satanic.

But if you mean by "socialism" the kind of system that many west European democracies have had at times, than no, I do not think it is necessarily a bad word, especially if we are talking about democratic socialism, or social democracy, that works within a system of democracy, with free markets and incentives, but which provides for the common good and gives we the people democratic control over our communities and investment capital.

Finally, I think that when discussing and debating systems and philosophies- it is always best to use the best examples, not the worst. For example, if I want to debate against libertarianism, I should address myself to the United States, not El Salvador. And again, if I want to critique Socialism, or Democratic Socialism, I should take on Sweden, not the old Soviet Union.

Best regards,

Lance

Last edited by lanceg; 07/12/07 07:46 PM.
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For the record, I have also been in the health care system for quite and while as an EMT, and I happen to think its excellent.


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Originally Posted by Subdeacon Borislav
For the record, I have also been in the health care system for quite and while as an EMT, and I happen to think its excellent.

I agree Borislav, the US Health care system can be quite good if you have money or if you are insured. I have received good care.

My ex-wife is dying of cancer, and she probably only has a few months to live. She went two years without any health care, through no fault of her own, and she could not get medicare or medicaid until it was too late. If she had been able to see a doctor, it would not of course prevented her cancer, but they may have found it earlier and been able to save her. Now, apart from God's intervention, she will probably die. She is only 48, and she lived a health life, with no drugs, alcohol, or obesity.

I think whatever we do about health care, we should attempt to cover everyone.

Last edited by lanceg; 07/12/07 07:53 PM.
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My prayers are with you and your wife.

I can not even begin to imagine how difficult this must be....

frown

Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 07/12/07 07:54 PM.
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Originally Posted by Subdeacon Borislav
My prayers are with you and your wife.

I can not even begin to imagine how difficult this must be....

frown

Thank you Borislav, I appreciate your prayers, and I know my ex does, and so do my kids. Even though they are young adults it is very hard on them. In fact, I wonder if it is even harder on them than if they were still little.

I appreciate the prayers very much, God bless!

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In conclusion I just want to quote what I said in the great discussion we had with lanceg in private msgs.

Quote
Its great that we are able to argue!

Its great that we can disagree!

This is exactly what makes our country so great! And this is exactly what we need. So called BI-Partisanship results in Immigration Bills like the one that we almost had rammed down our throats.

America was built on people with opinions fighting for what they believed.

The same by the way can be said for the Church of Christ and its battle against different Heresies at the Ecumenical Councils and Islam.

So called Bi-Partisanship gave the Church monotheletism.

Which is about as good as the Kennedy/McCain immigration Bill \

Finally, I am a firm believer of the fact that the once GREAT Democratic Party. The Party of such Patriots as JFK and Truman was hijacked by the Far Left. Ruled by the extremist element of moveon.org and George Soros this extreme element wants to turn this country into a place where 13 year old girls can abort their babies simply because they feel like it without even telling their parents, where homosexuals engage in obscenity right on the street, where there is not only legalized but FORCED euthanasia of the sick.

I for one will not stand by and watch this happen idly.

I will speak out against this way of life as loudly and harshly as I can because I believe this is my duty not only as a Conservative American, but as an Orthodox Christian.

Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 07/12/07 08:42 PM.
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Quote
Also the Leftists latest support for the Fairness Doctrine that will result in the end of talk radio would be well liked by both Hitler and Stalin.


Dear Borislav,

That so called 'fairness' doctrine, is the most absurd thing I have ever heard of. All our TV stations, with the exception of FOX news, and CBN news on the 700 club, give a liberal point of view. We hear only what they want us to hear. The BBC, that famous station of Great Britain with it's liberal tilt, had to actually fire their president for lying. shocked He lied mind you!

Well, is seems the point of view that we have been getting on our media, was not exactly the point of view the American people wanted to hear. So the conservative talk show hosts were and are having a hey day. cool Why not!

So those liberals that attempted radio and failed miserably, decided that where they can't compete they must detroy...so VOILA, the 'Fairness Bill'. HAH! laugh Tell me what's fair about it? Sore losers that's what they are. cry

Quote

Have you ever read any speeches by general Patton? If we had Him running our army the War in Iraq would have been won within a week of the American invasion. What do you think the good General did when His boys captured a Nazi during WWII? Do you think He shipped them off to Guantanamo Bay or worse yet to America where he can have an attorney payed by our tax money(as the Liberals would have it)? No, the good General had the Nazi executed by a firing squad.

I don't think the good General Patton would have gone against the Geneva convention and shoot anyone in a German uniform. If they didn't wear one, and they happened to be a Nazi, then that would be a different story. They would be shot as spies.

We followed the Geneva convention, as did all the nations in Western Europe. When one Nazi colonel spoke at the end of the war, he said that in the West each side respected the other's prisoners. In Eastern Europe though, it was a different story. They butchered each other.

Here though, the terrorists do not have a uniform, nor is it an army. They are in no man's land....thus Guatanamo.

God Bless,

Zenovia

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Quote
I think whatever we do about health care, we should attempt to cover everyone.

Dear Lance,

Having people close to me, that have rarely been covered by medical insurance, (and by the Grace of God have never suffered a serious illness), I couldn't agree with you more. I will also say thank God for the Catholic Church. For it never fails to cover the expenses of anyone, no matter what their denomination.

I do believe though that there should be more responsibility on the part of the government, before a national health insurance policy could come into affect. For one, tort reform. The law suits are rediculous, and destroying our nation. Also, the drug and food companies. Everything you buy has corn syrup in it, so is it any wonder it shows in peoples girth. Corn syrup does not turn into energy the way cane sugar does. Besides, must everything we buy be sweetened?

Then there are the cows. They are not grazing and producing CLA, which is a necessary fat that burns other fats. So all our cheeses, milk, meat and what not, is making us fatter. They need not be. In the mean time, as the contents become junkier and junkier, (and making us sicker and sicker sick ), the containers and sizes of everything we buy, get larger and larger. Where will it all end? shocked Enough is enough! We need national health insurance, but first the reforms. Hah! As if that would ever happen. cry

God Bless,

Zenovia


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Folks,

Come on now! We know that anyone who criticizes the Bush administration (or any Republican for that matter) is a communist and deviant!@! Haven't you learned by now that conservative Republicans are infallible? crazy shocked whistle smile wink biggrin
biggrin
I think that if we just accept a priori that any attack on any official of the Bush administration is probably instigated by Al Queda or some other deviant group, our lives will be much simpler. Besides, we know that God fearing Republicans would never do anything under any condition to violate the rights of an american citizen biggrin

(Please note the smiles and winks).

Joe

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I could care less about the Repoooooblicans.

I am a concervative and I uphold conservative values. If the Dems run an individual who will be Pro Life, Anti Gay Marriage, Anti Euthanasia, at least not anti Christian if not openly pro Christian, pro small government, able to utter the words ISLAMIC TERRORISM and secure the border I will vote for him.

Bush would not be my first choice... Or second.... Or third....

Come to think of it He may not be in the top 20, but at this particular point of time when the Democratic party is ran by the extreme left He is still better than any and all the Dems.

Just look at what the Nazi left did to Joe Liberman when he dared to disagree with the George Soros founded agenda.

Guys can you as Christians tell me that the things I support are wrong?

Come on search your hearts.

Can you honestly tell me that anyone the Dems are running will uphold these values?

If not how can you vote for them?


Last edited by Subdeacon Borislav; 07/12/07 11:48 PM.
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AthanasiusTheLesser
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If the Republican Party were to start making a real commitment to ending abortion (I believe that there are individual Republicans, such as Sam Brownback, who are truly committed, but I don't believe that the party as a whole really wants to end abortion, I think they prefer to use it as a wedge issue, just as the Democrats love to use it as a wedge issue), and were to provide a candidate for President who shares that commitment and does not constantly bow to the interests of the wealthy, while ignoring the poor and the middle class, who also takes a Christian approach to the question of war, and who does not actively seek out excuses to go to war, then I might vote for a Republican. However, as long as they provide candidates who are in the mold of the current President, as well as every Republican President of the 20th century, except for Teddy Roosevelt, I will not vote Republican. My family spent most of the first six decades of the 20th century fighting their way out of poverty. We have never met a Republican President who represented our interests. I don't see one in the field now who will. Right now, it looks to me that the Republican nominee will be either Giuliani or Romney. I can't imagine voting for either of them.

Ryan

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The Repooblicans aren't great, but they are certainly better than the party of Abortionist Sodomites.


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The Abortionist Sodomites are the Republicans - Cheney's family and Giuliani come to mind first and foremost. The oddest thing is that they don't openly admit they are, while the Democrats have no shame.

Which is worse? I really can't tell a practical difference!

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