www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Gonzales Knew About Patriot Act Abuses

Surely you're not suggesting that Cheney forced His daughter to her lifestyle?

Giuliani on the other hand is the only Pro-Choice candidate in the Republican party.

Besides Giuliani is not a conservative.

surely you're not suggesting that each democrat goes door to door recruiting straights to the sodomite lifestyle?

What of Fred Thompson, Romney (in practice, not just words), Susan Margret Collins, Olympia Snowe, Christine Todd Whitman, Condie Rice, etc.. not to mention the Republican savior Arnold?

Also disagreement on some key issues shows that the Republicans aren't mindless moppets that just yes each other to death.

The Dems on the other hand agree on every single liberal talking point. It's like they are all dancing to the tune of the same flute... Which they are....

Borislav:

As a Democrat from the age of 18, from a family of many life-long Democrats, I take great offense and some of what you have said. Also, it is simply not true that all Democrats "agree on every single liberal talking point." That may (or may not) be true of those currently running for President, but it is not true of all Democrats who hold public office. There are a few (unfortunately far too few) Democrats in office who are not pro-choice, there are very few Democrats who are pacifists, and while some opposed the war in Iraq, many of them initially supported the war. Over the past decade or so, there have been Democrats, including former President Clinton, who have sought to "reform" welfare in ways that have not been welcomed by liberals. I can tell you from my own experience as a union activist that Democrats have taken positions both for and against presidential "fast track" authority. I'm sure I could come up with other examples, but the hour is very late, and right now, I lack the energy. Please, consider the way in which your words can wound others. I really think you have the ability to make a case for your position without resorting to the use of insults and extreme hyperbole.

Sincerely,

Ryan

But how does your excessive and completely imprecise rhetorical bombast get us closer to understanding the truth and protecting Democracy? How does attacking Borislav help us see that anything that has been done is in any way illegal?

CDL

Would all the Republicans that are opposed to "socialism" be willing to give up their government and tax-payer supported Congressional/Presidential health care?

Anyone?

If not, please give the rest of us a break.

All this talk is cheap - if these guys are truly conservative, lets see less government, less handouts to businesses, cheap talk about immigration, less support of abortion, and true family values exhibited by their own lives (two and three time divorcees need not apply).

Mitt Romney refused to take a Salary in MA. He created a Health Care System where EVERY PERSON in MA is required to be covered by law. He has a wonderful family and He upholds every conservative value I hold dear.

And Athanasius, I think I have made it ubundantley clear that if the Dems were to run some one like Joe Liberman, I would be tripping over myself to go vote for their party.

I am not a REPOOOOOOOOOOPlican. I am a C O N S E R V A T I V E my friend, and I really could care less which party is in power as long as they will stand for TRUE Conservative values.

In fact if I didn't think that Impeaching our President will make us look weaker to our enemies (BTW I was against the Impeachment of Bill Clinton) I would say Impeach Bush for failing to protect our National Border and also for sending our boys to war under the current RIDICULOUS rules of engagement that are causing them to get slaughtered in Iraq.

As for your taking offense of my claim that the Democratic Presidential candidates agree on all key talking points. If I were a Dem, I would be taking offense at the current crop of candidates not the person who points out the facts. It's not my fault that these so called Liberals agree on EVERY SINGLE POINT like sheep.

At least on the Republican side you have people disagreeing with each other on such key issues as the Iraq War - Ron Paul, Abortion - Rudy G., Immigration - John McCain.

ONCE AGAIN. The Democratic Party used to have such great leaders as JFK and Truman. WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED? How did they get hijacked by the extreme leftist agenda? How could they sell out to George Soros and moveon.org

Borislav:

It is not your claim that all the Democrats agree on all liberal talking points that offends me, though the claim is false. What offends me is your use of language such as "Nazi Left, party of the Abortionist Sodomites, insane left, Gay mafia lobby, and Communists" to describe liberals and/or the Democratic party.

Ryan

Dear Ryan

I'm responding because this is a very serious issue. In order for abortion to end, our whole society has to change. We can't have everyone jumping from one bed into another, drinking alchohol, taking drugs from the age of 14 and younger; not know what they're doing, and then expect us to end abortion. It has to be done gradually, and in a way that the pro-choice activists will not be threatened. That can only happen when society changes...and even then within limits.

I like to watch that dirty communist, liberal Jon Stewart, (just joking). He's always good for a few laughs. Well, every now and then he has a spinning wheel with the four conservative judges on one side, and the four liberal judges on the other side. He has the neutral judge in the middle, and spins him to see which way he voted on an issue. It seems that the neutral judge, has now become more conservative.

Well I mention this because the only reason the Supreme Court is now more evenly divided, is because of Pres. Bush's appointee's. Had anyone of them voted anyway in the past before they were nominated, that would have shown a pro-life stance, the Democrats would not have allowed him to be nominated. Luckily though, these two got through Congress. Remember they were Bush's appointees. So one cannot say that he has not done everything possible to end abortion or what he has promised.

If Guiliani, or any Republican gets in, they will appoint more conservative judges. That is what's needed in order to eventually achieve what you want. If the Democrats get in, then is will make our society worse than what it is now for at least twenty years...if not for the rest of the time our nation survives. And that won't be for too long...at least if it continues to go the way it's been going.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Dear Zenovia:

With this much, I agree entirely.

Ryan

Dear Zenovia,

Thank you for your remarks. I agree with nearly everything you said.

The only thing I will add is that whatever we do, we do make coverage universal.

Best regards,

Lance

I am not attacking Borislav. I have a friendly disagreement with him. Borislav and I do not have the same politics, and so I expect him and I will spar many more times on these pages in the years ahead. But he is my friend, he can be as frank as he wants to, it will not bother me. He is a most worthy adversary in the political realm.

I do not see anything 'inprecise' in my comments. In my view, and in the view of many Americans, left and right, the current administration has engaged in illegal wire taps without warrants. The criticism of this administration and its lack of respect for the constitution does not just come from the left, but from conservatives as well.

There are courts set up by law to cover covert operations that must be pursued outside the normal warrant process. The Administration did not even get approval from them. I am inprecise in that I do not at the moment remember the name of the law that covers this situation.

I am sorry, I am not going to apologize to any one about critcizing the president, he is not above criticism. IF you think he is, than you do not understand democracy. This is not a left/right, liberal/conservative issue, it is a constitutional issue.

If we give up our rights to feel safe, than we have already surrendered the American ideal.

LanceG,

I agree with a lot of what you wrote. I think the law you mention is FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act).

We know from history that the following wars were started by official lies which were given by the then president of this country:

1. Spanish American War started by bombing of USS Maine. All evidence points to American complicity in this event, which very nicely allowed our president to declare war on Cuba and the Phillipines. The benefactors? All the hundreds of large companies who rushed into the ruins to take over land, businesses, and crops.

2. World War II. Not only was Hitler financed so that he could get his dispicable Nazi party off the ground and running, but numbers of American companies did business over there throughout the war, including Dow Chemical which owned the I.G. Farben chemical company which made the Zyklon gas used in the concentration camps. Bombers flying over Germany late in WWII had certain tagets they were not allowed to hit. Farben Chemical company was one of them.

3. Vietnam War. There is historical evidence that the Gulf of Tonkin attack never took place, but the press went right along with it and voila! Another lovely little war for our businesses.

At the end of his presidency, Dwight D. Eisenhower gave an impassioned speech in which he warned of the influence of the "military / industrial complex" and his concerns that it could easily get out of hand. Right now, the top 10 businesses in this country are all on war production. Coincidence? I, for one, think not.

There is a reason that some of us distrust our government -- a long history of lies and deceptions which benefit a small coterie of insiders.

If you don't think that 9/11 was an inside job, perhaps you could answer me the following quesions.

1. Explain the complete meltdown of the NORAD response to commercial airplanes going off their flight pattern on that day.

2. Explain how a steel building collapses when it takes 2700 degrees of heat to melt steel. The official explanation is that the fire did this, but jet fuel cannot reach temps higher than around 1700 degrees. No other building such as the twin towers has ever collapsed from a fire, and there have been some extremely fierce ones recorded.

3. The demolition of Building 7, which had relatively little damage, on the very same day, by the use of explosive charges which brought the building down. Are you going to tell me that this whole building was rigged to blow up in a matter of hours while there were small fires and smoke in it? The owner made $500 million dollars from the insurance claim.

4. The jets that hit the towers destroyed 10 stories of floors by their impact, yet a much larger jet, a 757, supposedly hitting the Pentagon, did not do anywhere near that damage.

5. Pictures taken immediately after the impact at the Pentagon show no impact in the grass near the hole, not jet parts lying on the ground, and a relatively small hole.

5. Why did the FBI literally run to the gas station across the street from the Pentagon and confiscate the videos of the security cameras?

6. Flight 93 in PA supposedly crashed from being out of conrol, yet pieces of the jet and body parts were found some 8 miles from the supposed point of impact.

7. Why was the steel from both the towers hustled into waiting trucks and sold to China before it could be examined? This was a crime scene, yet the evidence was not allowed to remain for insspection. Why?

There are 35 other questions I could ask. More and more people are starting to get wind of these questions as we "nutjobs" and "conspiracy freaks" pour over the facts and come up with the same conclusion:

Something smells like week old dead fish left out in the sun!

Given man's sinful and greedy nature, and the history of mankind in which the desire of men throughout the ages has been totalitarian rule over others, you would have to be something of a starry eyed idealist to believe that such sinful behaviors no longer exist in the bosom of men.

No, I am not a democrat or a socialist or a communist, so you can keep your perjoratives to yourself. I am a Christian who is beginning to see, much to my dismay, that our country is being run by thieves, liars, charlatans, and evil people on both sides of the political aisle. I will vote for neither, since the are so totally corrupt.

I challenge you to get the book THE NEW PEARL HARBOR by David Ray Griffin and answer these quetions for yourself -- if you can.

Brother Ed

Conspiracy theories are fun and demonstrate a fertile mind but are usually false and a darned big waste of time.

Tell us about your movement toward the monastary which is much more useful to you and to us.

CDL