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Mar 25th, 2025
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Presidential candidates Barrack Obama and John Edwards both support creating a national health care system which would include abortions. In other words, they want the people to pay for abortions through taxes. This is so vile I don't have words. But, since these two men are leading candidates for the U.S. presidency, I thought you might want to know.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-dems18jul18,1,639458.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
-- John
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John,
This is most unfortunate. I was considering voting for Obama, in spite of his pro-choice stance. But, this goes beyond my ability turn a blind eye. As things stand, I believe I will probably not vote in the 2008 election. It is still early though, so we shall see.
Joe
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Can you post the meat of the artical. Your link requires an account be setup.
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I hope that where health care is needed we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. no to abortions, but we should not let the abortion crowd decide for us as to whether we get health care or not.
Much love,
Jonn
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Then have the candidate you support take it off the table. I will not vote for abortion or those supporting and even promoting it.
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Can you post the meat of the artical. Your link requires an account be setup. Sure. Here is the text of the article. -- John Democrats pledge support for wide access to abortion
By Mike Dorning
Washington Bureau
Published July 18, 2007
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-dems18jul18,1,639458.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=2&cset=true
WASHINGTON -- Elizabeth Edwards said Tuesday that her husband's health-care plan would provide insurance coverage of abortion.
Speaking on behalf of Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards before the family planning and abortion-rights group Planned Parenthood Action Fund, Edwards lauded her husband's health-care proposal as "a true universal health-care plan" that would cover "all reproductive health services, including pregnancy termination," referring to abortion.
Edwards was joined by Democratic candidates Sens. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Barack Obama (D-Ill.) at the group's political organizing conference in addressing issues at the core of the political clash between cultural liberals and conservatives, including abortion rights, access to contraception and sex education.
The recent 5-4 Supreme Court decision upholding a federal ban on a late-term abortion procedure that opponents call "partial-birth abortion" has increased anxieties among reproductive-rights advocates over the future of constitutional protections for abortion rights. All three of the Democratic campaigns used the forum to signal their determination to appoint Supreme Court nominees who would uphold the 1973 Roe vs. Wade abortion ruling.
Obama, who earlier gained the endorsement of Washington, D.C., Mayor Adrian Fenty, offered the group a vision of equal opportunity for women, tying a call for improved access to contraceptives for low-income women with a call for an "updated social contract" that includes paid maternity leave and expanded school hours.
Asked about his proposal for expanded access to health insurance, Obama said it would cover "reproductive-health services." Contacted afterward, an Obama spokesman said that included abortions.
Clinton has not yet released her health-care proposal. She provided a bruising critique of Bush administration policies and Republican conservatives on abortion rights and contraception policy.
She criticized cuts in contraception services for low-income women, lengthy delays in approving over-the-counter sales of the "morning-after" contraceptive pill and redirection of sex education funds to abstinence-only programs that do not include information on contraceptive use or condoms toto prevent the spread of AIDS.
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John Nightwatcher,
I hear you, and I agree with you heartily, about the need for America to reform our health care system.
However, I really cannot fathom voting for someone who supports that if the price is public funding of abortion. That means the public would be forced, through taxation, to pay for people to kill their own kids. I don't want to pay for someone to kill their kid . . .
. . . but then again, we have this [expletive] war, which is killing a lot of people's kids. Sometimes, I just don't know where to draw the line.
-- John
Last edited by harmon3110; 07/18/07 02:02 PM.
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Joe, This is most unfortunate. I was considering voting for Obama, in spite of his pro-choice stance. But, this goes beyond my ability turn a blind eye. I hear you . . . -- John
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John Nightwatcher,
I hear you, and I agree with you heartily, about the need for America to reform our health care system.
However, I really cannot fathom voting for someone who supports that if the price is public funding of abortion. That means the public would be forced, through taxation, to pay for people to kill their own kids. I don't want to pay for someone to kill their kid.
-- John I have a comment, and I do not want to be misunderstood- I do not favor abortion, and if I were in public office I would vote for restricting abortion. But here is the thing- pro-life people are going to need to broaden their concerns, because, people are becoming more and more concerned with these other pressing social and economic needs. Pro-Life politicians need to address other aspects of the common good, because otherwise, they are going to lose in the years ahead, and it will be much more difficult to end abortion. People in their fallen condition are selfish, they are going to vote for their own needs. Our health care system is a train wreck. If we do not want Obama and Edwards to carry out their plans, we need to offer a viable alternative.
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I have a comment, and I do not want to be misunderstood- I do not favor abortion, and if I were in public office I would vote for restricting abortion.
But here is the thing- pro-life people are going to need to broaden their concerns, because, people are becoming more and more concerned with these other pressing social and economic needs. Pro-Life politicians need to address other aspects of the common good, because otherwise, they are going to lose in the years ahead, and it will be much more difficult to end abortion.
People in their fallen condition are selfish, they are going to vote for their own needs. Our health care system is a train wreck. If we do not want Obama and Edwards to carry out their plans, we need to offer a viable alternative. Lance, I've honestly thought about your post this afternoon. I can understand the need for, as you put it, "pro-life people are going to need to broaden their concerns." However, I just cannot get over the fact that those two men want to force me, by the tax laws, to pay for someone to kill their kid. I can't support that. -- John
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How about supporting the health plan, but opposing an amendment to force us to pay for murder?
I say we write Sens. Obama and Edwards about it NOW, and remind them if they get elected later.
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I happen to be married to a physician who has actually practiced under a national health system in Romania. I've studied the western systems as well. My conclusion is that they all operate under the same principles of political control and robbing peter to pay paul. The generalized economically dysfunctional soviet bloc system made hiding the ill effects a non-starter but in the West, there's more money to toss around and the ill effects of such systems are less obvious.
I believe that we should all care for each other as good christians should but I find that the State is a horribly inefficient and dangerous way to go about doing it. Canada sends patients here so they do not die while waiting on line for treatment in Canada. Germany, against the advice of its generals, maintains a draft because without it, there would be no cheap indentured labor to subsidize FRG hospitals and the health system would rapidly collapse. Other national health systems have similar dirty secrets.
The budget battles lead to ethical compromises and outright sin. Euthanasia is very much a cost savings measure in practice where it is legal and a tempting option for budget makers who are stuck on how to pay for all that free health care. Political ideology leads to paying not only for abortions but for elective sex change operations and other nonsense.
No, I cannot agree that government national health care is a wisely discerned policy. We should not support it.
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I agree with TM Lutas. We are indeed an increasingly selfish culture. It's called decadent. I'd much rather spend our nation's resources on fially helping Africa to become economically self sufficient that to create an ill-advised National healtch system.
CDL
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AthanasiusTheLesser Member
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No, I cannot agree that government national health care is a wisely discerned policy. We should not support it. And I'm quite sure that those many Americans who do without access to healthcare because they cannot afford it would disagree rather vociferously. While I am currently insured, I have been through a few periods in my lifetime without health insurance. As someone with multiple chronic health conditions, my overall health definetely has suffered during those periods. National health care systems are certainly not without their own problems, but I think it's better than having millions of people who can't afford to see a physician. Ryan
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National health care systems are certainly not without their own problems, but I think it's better than having millions of people who can't afford to see a physician.
Ryan Ryan, Do you realize that the way that problem is dealt with in those countries with nationalized health care systems is they kill off the elderly because otherwise they cost too much to maintain? The remaining people often wait months to get into a doctor. I wouldn't say that is a viable solution.
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