www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology kissing icons - do's and dont's

To confuse things more, some don't make the sign of the cross before going down because they don't want to "break the cross," so they bend down first then make the sign of the cross on the way back up.

Yes and also don't light candles yourself before the icons in an Old Ritualist church - the ponomar handles that.

I've not heard this one...I've always read that every prayer or veneration starts with the sign of the Cross, as the Fathers taught, with the bow or metania after.

In the Melkite (and Antiochian) tradition, we bend down first to make the metany and make the sign of the cross as we rise. Thus the hand goes down to touch or approach the ground and is then brought to the forehead as we straighten back up.

Thanks for the posts. It's just so wonderful to hear how so many people do things. Whether it's the exact same way I was taught, or completely different, it's wonderful to read people sharing their feelings and thoughts and giving of their time. It's just so darn interesting! Diversity is a good thing. And it shows that we can be a Universal, Catholic Church.

TIm

Not to contradict anyone, but when I went to my church I did not see anybody come in and do the metonia three times or kiss all three icons. Are you guys sure this is necessary or encouraged strongly, or is it more something that is recommended but not required? Also, all the times I visited Orthodox Churches I also do not remember ever seeing this practice in kissing icons. And on websites regarding introductory riles on kissing icons from Orthodox sites I do not see it mentioned as intructional either. Maaybe this is a tradtion that varies from culture to culture and not one that everybody has to do?
Also as far as opening all prayers with the sign of the cross, I can see this when entering into a formal state of prayer, but what about when just trying to stay in prayer throughout the day. Or offering an Our Father while driving or when using the Jesus prayer. Sometimes prayer is an ongoing conversation. I find it hard to believe one would make trhe sign of the cross before every possible interaction with God, but it is easy to believe we should do this before and after entering into specific periods of time that are devoted to prayer.

In a Ruthenian church, you are probably unlikely to see it. In Orthodox churches, you are most likely to see it. Depending on which church you visit, you're more likely to see a quick veneration of bending and kissing ranging to the full three metanoias going all the way down to the ground (like Muslims) on days other than Sunday.

It is never wrong to do it. As a matter of fact, it is right to do it. But you have discovered that many Eastern Christians do not know their own faith.

In our Byzantine Catholic mission we do reverence the icons. However, I must confess to being a bit of an inferior Christian at times. Certain individuals seem to be droolers, and when behind them in line, I have perfected the technique of pretending to kiss the icon while not actually touching it. Somehow I put it in the same category as sharing a chalice in a Roman church - not gonna do it.

We should approach a Holy Icon with a humble soul.

Window of Heaven is a Holy Icon.

Prayer. Towards God it is our soul. Position.

Here many of us make three times little metanoia or great metanoia, with the forehead on the floor. Especially in the Great Fast of the Holy Pascha.

Lord Jesus Christ: kissing the feet

Yperagia Theotokos: kissing the frame of the Holy Icon or at the bottom in a corner.

Saints as Saint Nicolas: the hand in which he holds the Holy Evengelia.

The Holy Icon of the Most Holy Trinity (of Rublev): the space underneath the table; mind stops, we can mumble no word about the Most Holy Trinity.

Humbleness, love, patience, gentleness in all the ways.

Awaiting.

Mercy of God.

God bless you all. Amin.

M+

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www.sacredromania.com [sacredromania.com]

That was wonderful, Marian. I remember learning those as a child. Unfortunately I grew up when our church was being "latinized" (or is "Americanized" more accurate?), so we didn't do some of the things we should have. Fortunately, my parents were hard core Rusyn's and taught me to do the full Mytania three times, not once. And where to kiss the icons, even though we rarely had icons in our church. My father also taught me "the little cross" I've heard it called. Where you use basically your thumb and your fingers to make the sing of the cross three times on your forehead, your mouth and your heart.

Thanks, Mom and Dad! Love ya!

Tim

So if nobody else in the church practices this specific way of venerating the icons, should I go ahead and do it, or would it be wrong to do something that would stand out a bit? Or would it remind some others to rethink the idea. I really just want to blend in, but most importantly, I want to give God the honor and praise he is do.
Justy a question from a paranoid ex-evangelical perspective, but, when doing the 3 metanoia before kissing an icon of Mary, how exactly is this act understood. I feel like the bow is very worshipful but we do not worship Mary. Is tthe bowing out of reverence for God and the trinity and the kiss in honor of Mary?
Also, what of my question regarding the sign of the cross to start and close prayers, when the prayers are more informal or conversational like during taskes. Sometimes prayers do not seem to end formally but I just get distracted. I wouold not think you would make the sign of the cross every single time you say anything toward God at all.

The Sign of the Cross should be used much more commonly than most do today. It is a prayer that can stand on its own, or it can be combined with the most simple of prayers such as the Jesus Prayer. It does not have to be used any time a conversation with God is undertaken, but a regular habit of praying the Sign of the Cross any time you enter into formal prayer should be cultivated.

The Sign of the Cross is a trinitarian prayer and is solely directed to God. The veneration of saints' icons is venerating the image of God found in the individual depicted. The worship is directed solely to God while the veneration, respect, is given to a loved one. You can feel confidant making the metanoias and venerating the saints' icons, knowing you are worshiping God alone.

Whether or not to do things correctly but out of sync with your parish community really depends on what God is calling you to. For some, such displays would be a source of pride and would be harmful to themselves and others. For others, such an action would be undertaken with humility and through it could bring about much positive change in self and others. I would recommend examining yourself and your motivations to see in what way God is stretching you and helping you grow. If you still are in doubt once you talk it over with God, you can ask your priest for guidance.