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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Feb 2007
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This is, in fact, the way the ancient monks did prayers - but I think it would not go over in our churches now, as I�ve mentioned, periods of silence are taboo. A little teaching goes a long way. So does a little silence.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Dear John,
It doesn't bother me one way or the other; it's your board. (And for that matter, I don't consider myself a "supporter" of the revisions. I support some aspects, don't care for others - and am actually glad (a) to see the bishops attending to the Liturgy in a common fashion and (b) roll back some of the changes in my own diocese that I thought ill-advised. I have no particular arguments in re liturgy, and wish the bishops would speak out more. I do object to untrue statements, and the tendency to attribute bad motives to priests, bishops and others.) But yes, I think it gave an appearance of starting with a negative attitude here.
Yours in Christ,
Jeff
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Since Father David hasn't answered ANY of my questions, I can only assume that the ultimate goal of the BCC is total destruction and absorption into the (hopefully) Orthodox church from where they came, or God forbid the "Protestant under the Pope" Roman Catholic church.
I've talked to many people since the RDL has been implemented and not ONE has said that they like it or that it is going smoothly in their parish. Lack of Slavonic, dislike for the new music, changing of the words, (IE: inclusive language), has people totally dismayed with the church they have loved all their life!
I'll keep praying that this travesty comes to a quick end!
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I recently received official notification from Rome that my letter regarding displeasure of the new translation has been received by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. They will be forwarding the letter to the Congregation for Oriental Churches (although I had already sent the same letter to them). I thought that it was nice that they acknowledged my correspondence, but the irony is, I am Orthodox now!  Has anyone else received receipt of acknowledgement from Rome?
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Since Father David hasn't answered ANY of my questions, I can only assume that the ultimate goal of the BCC is total destruction and absorption into the (hopefully) Orthodox church from where they came, or God forbid the "Protestant under the Pope" Roman Catholic church.
I've talked to many people since the RDL has been implemented and not ONE has said that they like it or that it is going smoothly in their parish. Lack of Slavonic, dislike for the new music, changing of the words, (IE: inclusive language), has people totally dismayed with the church they have loved all their life!
I'll keep praying that this travesty comes to a quick end! What the heck is that supposed to mean? I have family who are Roman Catholic and I can assure you they are not protestant. Don't take this the wrong way (words sound harsher typed) but if you are Orthodox now, why are you still so concerned about the BCC? And don't some Orthodox jurisdictions have inclusive language too? Maybe Fr. Anthony can correct me but don't the Greek Orthodox in America drop "men" from "for us men and our salvation"?
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By saying Protestant under the Pope, I meant that if the Pope wasn't mentioned in the Roman liturgy, it could almost pass for a Protestant service.
Yes I am Orthodox now, but I have family and friends who are still Byzantine Catholic. They are in much anguish over the new liturgy, and their attendance has dropped off as a result. They are disgusted with the changing of a Liturgy they have known and loved for years. They would never leave the church or convert to Orthodoxy as I did, but still they aren't happy.
That's why I still have an interest in the BCC, if you must know.
Last edited by Etnick; 09/25/07 07:13 PM. Reason: Punctuation
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Joined: May 2007
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Etnick,
Are you referring to how mass is performed in some parishes, or do you mean to generalize by including all Roman-rite Catholics in the bunch? I take it that a few of the readers here would be rather offended at the latter claim.
The closest to a Protestant service I have seen at a Catholic Church was with at a Charismatic-Catholic service. But since I last visited, I hear that our bishop (now retired archbishop) had made some changes.
Otherwise, even the loosely followed masses I've been to have been very distant from any Protestant service in its atmosphere, its order, and its meaning.
Terry
Last edited by Terry Bohannon; 09/25/07 09:55 PM. Reason: clarity
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Most Evangelical, I should say. I'm not referring to High Church Protestants.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Maybe Fr. Anthony can correct me but don't the Greek Orthodox in America drop "men" from "for us men and our salvation"? Zan, Please stand corrected. This is the link to the official version of the creed mandated by the Holy Eparchial Synod of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese. It has been in place for two years now. The official endorsement is on the bottom. Official GOA version of the Nicene Creed [ goarch.org] In IC XC, Father Anthony+ To all,
This thread is way off topic. Please restrict your comments to the initial post of this thread, or it will face closure.
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 178
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Thanks Fr. Anthony. Are the Orthodox Churches the only ones who know proper English? The Ruthenians are in such trouble.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Keep writing letters! My sources tell me that the new Prefect of the Oriental Congregation is well aware of the problems with the RDL but doe not know how to solve them.
I am reposting my original posts that have disappeared down the chain. I have learned that people are writing to Rome and that Rome is listening to the faithful priests and people of the Ruthenian Catholic Church. The approval came under Daoud. He does not speak English very well. It looks like the RDL was presented as a minor textual update and they didn't really review it (except for Taft). If people keep writing and asking for the Ruthenian Divine Liturgy the Congregation will direct Archbishop Basil to allow it.
Below are my original posts:
I encourage everyone in our Church to write letters writing campaign to Rome. We are a small Church. A mere dozen letters from our clergy alone would be able to overturn the reformed liturgy in favor of the real liturgy. If we all write letters and each find only 2 more people to write letters we can succeed. I especially encourage our clergy to write since letters from clergy are not ignored by Rome.
Start by obtaining a good copy of the promulgation and cover letter from your pastor. The one on this website is not good enough.
Send copies to the following people (as a start):
His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI
The Apostolic Palace
00120 Vatican City, Europe
His Eminence Cardinal Ignace Moussa Daoud, Prefect
Congregation for the Oriental Churches
Palazzo del Bramante
Via della Conciliazione, 34
00193 Roma, Italia, Europe
Telephone: 011.39.06.69.88.42.82
Fax: 011.29.06.69.88.43.00
Send separate letters to the following at the same address:
His Excellency Antonio Maria Veglio, Secretary
Mons. Krzystof Nitkiewicz, Undersecretary
And to the following:
His Eminence Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect
Congregatio de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum
Palazzo delle Congregazioni
Piazza Pio XII, 10
00193 Roma, Italia, Europe
Telephone: 011.39.06.69.88.43.16; 011.39.06.69.88.43.18
Fax: 011.39.06.69.88.34.99
His Eminence Cardinal Walter Kasper
Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity
Via dell'Erba, 1
00193 Roma, Italia, Europe
Telephone: 011.39.06.69.88.30.72; 011.39.06.69.88.42.71
Fax: 011.39.06.69.88.53.65
When I have a chance I will post the mailing information for all the Greek Catholic patriarchs (especially the Ukrainian Patriarch Lubomyr and the Melkite Patriarch Gregorios III) and for our bishops in Europe.
Keep your letters polite and respectful. Make sure they contain no emotion all.
There is a lot of material on this web board to draw from. Write the letter in your own words and focus on the following points:
1. This Reformed Liturgy violates official books, the Ordo Celebrationis, and the Liturgical Instruction.
2. This Reformed Liturgy makes the Liturgy in our Ruthenian Church different than all other Byzantine / Greek Catholics and thus hurts unity within the Catholic Church.
3. This Reformed Liturgy makes the Liturgy in our Ruthenian Church different than all the other Orthodox Churches and thus hurts Catholic / Orthodox unity.
4. The embracement of inclusive language violates Liturgiam Authenticam.
Make sure your letter is no longer than 2 pages. Have someone not from our Church read it. If they don't understand what you are saying neither will the people in Rome.
Make sure you ask questions. Why did they approve a Byzantine Novus Ordo liturgy that is different than the official Ruthenian books? Why did they direct the use of inclusive language that violates Liturgiam Authenticam? Ask them why the official Ruthenian Divine Liturgy is being prohibited at the same time the Holy Father is considering making the Tridentine Mass an equal standard with the Novus Ordo.
Enclose a copy of Archbishop Basil's promulgation letter and the cover letter sent to your pastor so they know what you are talking about.
Do not threaten to leave or withhold your offerings. Take the position that you are a faithful Byzantine Catholic and that you want the official liturgy of our Church. Take the position that you are willing to do whatever it takes to obtain permission from the Vatican for your parish to continue celebrate the official Ruthenian Divine Liturgy.
Use full names and addresses. Make sure the signatures are clear. If you can sent either U.S. Global mail, UPS or FedEx. The special cardboard envelopes will attract attention.
If you think you can manage it petitions do work. Just make sure that every signature and name and address is captured and legible.
Don't sit back and think someone else will write and you can ignore this. YOU NEED TO WRITE YOUR OWN LETTER! YOU NEED TO WRITE YOUR LETTER TODAY!
Dostojno Jest
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Another address:
His Beatitude, Cardinal Patriarch Lubomyr
The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
pl. Sviatoho Yura 5,
Lviv 79000 Ukraine
Phone: (+380) 322 97-97-63
Additional Letter to:
Dionisio Lachovicz (Liakhovych), O.S.B.M., Auxiliary Bishop
General - info@ugcc.org.ua
Press office - press@ugcc.org.ua
Synod of Bishops - synod@ugcc.org.ua
Secretariate of the Sobor - sobor@ugcc.org.ua
I had a pm. We need to write to Patriarch Bartholomew, Bishop Maximos of Pittsburgh (the head of the Orthodox Catholic Dialog).
His All Holiness BARTHOLOMEW
Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome, and Ecumenical Patriarch
Rum Patrikhanesi, 342 20 Fener- Halic, Istanbul, Turkey
Tel. +90 212 5319670 - 6
Fax. +90 212 5349037
E-mail: Patriarchate@ec-patr.org
Also:
His Eminence, Metropolitan Meliton of Philadelphia.
Tel.: +90 212 6354022
Fax: +90 212 5349037
E-mail: melito@superonline.com
I have been told that the Patriarch is very interested in the activities of the Byzantine Catholics. It does affect the Catholic / Orthodox ecumenical dialog. He will not take kindly to a feminist rewrite of the Divine Liturgy.
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I hope something happens soon, I can hardly stand waiting. I'm starting to feel like Boyarina Morozova! Orthodoxy or Death! [ Linked Image]
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I hope something happens soon, I can hardly stand waiting. I'm starting to feel like Boyarina Morozova! Orthodoxy or Death! [ Linked Image] Stephanie, I attended a beautiful Vespers service for St. Nicholas this evening. The incense was none like I've experienced before. The church was majestic. I felt like the Russian emissaries that went to Constantinople! I knew not whether I was in heaven or on earth! 
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Stephanie, I attended a beautiful Vespers service for St. Nicholas this evening. The incense was none like I've experienced before. The church was majestic. I felt like the Russian emissaries that went to Constantinople! I knew not whether I was in heaven or on earth! Etnick, my friend, are you trying to get us Ukes fired up here on this board.  I awaiting the barrage of posts about Prince Vladimir not being quite Russian. Of course the term Ukrainian wasn't around then as well. This could be a great topic that unfortunately would turn into a free-for-all. I think that Ukrainians, Russians, Rusyns, etc. would agree that ......... oh never mind I started daydreaming again  Monomakh
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