www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Purgatory and Eastern Catholics

I would like to know if Eastern Catholics are required to accept the full-blown Roman Catholic definition of purgatory as defined by the Councils of Florence and Trent.

Considering that Orthodoxy rejects the idea of purification of the soul after death, how can the two positions be reconciled?

I don't know an official answer, but in the Light for Life series the is a footnote to the "Prayer for the Dead" section (p. 64) that says:



Puragtory is not dicussed in the main text, but only in the footnote. I found the last sentence to be particularly enlightening and ammusing (not in a bad way.) The union failed both after Florence and Basil, and since these were called to solidify union, these councils failed in their purpose. All the Union of Brest says on the topic is "5. We shall not debate about purgatory, but we entrust ourselves to the teaching of the Holy Church." This is not particularly helpful, except to show, that the Eastern Churches did not agree at that time either about purgatory.

Hope this helps clear up some questions, even while it muddies the waters.



Rosemary

I tried explaining that to folks on Angelqueen, but got booted for having done so. Instead, I was accused of being a heretic and a schismatic.

Whatever happens, it's a mystery.

I take it that the writer of this quotation has never read the services of prayer for the dead in the Orthodox service-books.

Less seriously, since "Purgatory" in the common Latin sense first arose in the later medieval period, I've often wondered if it was not devised a place to which God might send the Eastern Catholics!

Fr. Serge

Fr. Serge,
I know the Orthodox service books, but the witness I find among the Orthodox denies anything remotely akin to the Catholic dogma of purgatory.
From the Greek Archdiocesan Web site:
The Orthodox Church believes that at this moment the soul of the dead person begins to enjoy the consequences of its deeds and thoughts on earth - that is, to enjoy the life in Paradise or to undergo the life in Hell. There.is no way of repentance, no way of escape, no reincarnation and no help from the outside world. Its place is decided forever by its Creator and judge.

The Orthodox Church does not believe in purgatory (a place of purging), that is, the inter-mediate state after death in which the souls of the saved (those who have not received temporal punishment for their sins) are purified of all taint preparatory to entering into Heaven, where every soul is perfect and fit to see God. Also, the Orthodox Church does not believe in indulgences as remissions from purgatoral punishment. Both purgatory and indulgences are inter-corrolated theories, unwitnessed in the Bible or in the Ancient Church, and when they were enforced and applied they brought about evil practices at the expense of the prevailing Truths of the Church. If Almighty God in His merciful loving-kindness changes the dreadful situation of the sinner, it is unknown to the Church of Christ. The Church lived for fifteen hundred years without such a theory. "

Pope Shenouda III of the Coptic Orthodox Church says:
"The Coptic Orthodox view on the Prayer for the Departed

We pray for those who departed from this world not because we believe in the purgatory but following St. Paul who prayed for Onesiphorus saying, "The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day" (2 Tim 1:18). In that Day meant in the Day of Judgment, as he said "Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing." (2 Tim 4:8) St. Paul was not asking for mercy in the purgatory but on the Day of Judgment when he stands before the Just Judge. We pray for the departure that God may grant them rest in the place of waiting for the Day of Judgment has not come yet. Those departed are awaiting without worry or unrest. The litany for the departed does not mention the purgatory at all. We pray saying, "Sustain them in a green pasture, by the water of rest in the paradise of joy, the place out of which grief, sorrow and groaning have fled away" This is definitely not the description of the purgatory for the purgatory contrarily is a place of grief, sorrow and groaning.

Our Church absolves the soul of the departed during the prayer. She absolves her from all the sins she committed while in the flesh. We say to God, 'this soul has departed from us absolved by the church. We do not retain any sin for her � we intercede for her for You O Lord know the weakness of man."

For purposes of this discussion "Orthodox" means "Byzantine-Orthodox".

The services themselves and the actual texts of the services trump the web-site of this or that Archdiocese in terms of "official statements" any day. Once again, read the services attentively.

While you are at it, read the honest-to-God official, magisterial statements of the Catholic Church on the subject. As so often happens, they do not endorse all the wilder flights of pious or poetic fancy. The word "purgatory" is not part of revealed truth; it did not begin to be used until the late medieval period.

Fr. Serge

Father Serge,

Lex orandi, lex credendi, no?

Msgr. Seely Beggiani also writes concerning the views on eschatology of Early Syriac Theology:


How one experiences this preparation through spiritual fire or its relationship to "time" (chronological or kairotic) is a mystery no one can or should attempt to penetrate. We have enough trouble trying to understand how this life works much less the eternal! But that such a purification takes place in some form or another is certainly true.

Gordo

<<ammused chuckling>>

If you tell a RC Trad you don't believe in their understanding of purgatory, they'll accuse you of being a heretic and a schismatic.

According to their view, we have to accept the letter of the Council of Florence's decree on purgatory. If we don't we are anathema. I find it troubling that there are those among the Latin Catholics who reject the idea of unity amid diversity.

LOL! I get this one.

Given the history of the Eastern Catholics, I would imagine that "Purgatory" is a model of the church to which only Eastern Catholics had to accept.

Eddie
PS: All in humor; just humor.

How quick to excommunicate; and all without a bishop! Remind me never to step foot in THEIR church. I wouldn't survive; they might lynch me.

Are you referring to the "their understanding" of Purgatory or "Purgatory" in itself? There is a diffence.

Fundamentalists are so up on "their understanding or else" theology.

Eddie

Yeah, I made the mistake of mention I am a Melkite on their Angelqueen forum, and they went out of their way to lynch me. They accused me of heresy and schism, and they banned me after I told them what they were doing was a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

The RC Trads hate Eastern Christians with a passion. Frankly, I appreciate the traditional Roman liturgy, but I could do without their self-righteousness.

Don't lump all Traditional's in the same basket, some of us are warm & fuzzy...

I don't visit AQ or those forums will project that progressive charm, I don't like headaches...

james

Brother James. Being warm and fuzzy is better than lukewarm.

Eddie

RC Trads hate Eastern Christians with a passion ??? I don't, and frankly I don't know any others off hand who do. And by the way, plenty of Ukrainian and Maronite Catholics believe in Purgatory in the same sense Latin Rite Catholics do.