www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West ACROD question

Sorry to go off topic, but has anyone been to a PNCC mass? I'm curious to know what they are like...

My parish (ACROD) is congregationally owned. It's a bit different from what I was used to with the Catholics.

I find it interesting that they were afraid to scandalize the Irish faithful. The Irish, I'm sure, have forgotten the part of their history where the majority of the parish clergy (and perhaps even monks and nuns) were married. Some evidence points to this being the case in Scotland even into the 15th and 16th centuries.

Thank you! I pointed out the exact thing earlier in the thread or in some other thread. Co-ed monasteries were very normal and everyone thrived for hundreds of years. The Celtic Church had their own distinctive tonsure and ways of doing things. Eventually the Roman way took over. Bishop Ireland must not have known of his own past.

Tim

no, perhaps he did know his past and that is why ireland was so quick to dismiss the greek catholics and let them return to orthodoxy? There are always two sides to a story.

Sorry to reply off-topic, but I've been to a PNCC Mass. The church was one of the older, more traditional variety, and the priest served (essentially) a dialogue old Latin Mass in English. As is PNCC doctrine, the Nicene Creed was recited without the Filioque. The priest began with the Asperges and gave a "general penance and absolution" following the Confiteor, in keeping with the PNCC's avoidance (in practice) of private confession. There is another Mass edited by PNCC founder Bp. Hodur, but I haven't attended that.

That said, there has been a marked change as the PNCC has increased "ecumenical dialogue" with Rome and accepted a number of priests from the RCC trained after Vatican II, most especially the "Contemporary Mass," which mirrors the Novus Ordo.

I blogged on the PNCC here [westernorthodox.blogspot.com].

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Chris this wasn't pointed at anyone in particular, they are two good books and probably should be read by anyone interested in the Rusyn churches in the USA.

In my experience the PNCC has a general confession and absolution during the mass that counts as a private confession and the reconciliation. In other words, like protestants of all colours, private confession is abandoned, although the PNCC makes the youthful go to private confession so I have been told.

OP,

Yes, exactly. However, they have private confession "available" for those who want it, rather like the Episcopalians in that way.

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Incidentally, the current state of relations between the Catholic Church in the USA and the Polish National Catholic Church in the USA is that concelebration of the Eucharist is not permitted, but members of either Church are welcome to receive communion in the other Church. This is not under the table; this is approved by Rome (in the person of John Paul II) and by the authorities of the Polish National Catholic Church.

Fr. Serge

That's been in the front of the missalette for decades here in the States, along with a similar invitation to Orthodox. Of course, they don't inform them Orthodox bishops forbid their laity from communing in RCC parishes....

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Out of curiosity, I googled Archbishop Ireland and found among other things, this from the Columbia Online Encyclopedia:

Emphasis added.

(What I call the "ward-healer" model of the episcopate -- common enough today.)

Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches ([western] canon 844 � 3).

edit: Oops - sorry, I see that you were referencing the particular missalette and not Church teaching. Is this a missal put out by the USCCB?

Very interesting conversation on the PNCC btw

That's kind of like saying, "You are invited back to my apartment anytime you want, Big Boy...but please respect the discipline of your wife."

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

WO, isn't that being a tad harsh? I would think and hope it may at least be possible that these churches could licitly change their teachings in this area in the future. The nature of marital commitment would not be open to such change.

While we're on the subject, to the extent that is has not been addressed or included in the church's thinking, I would personally like to see a stipulation in canon law that such a person receiving Eurcharist in a Catholic church should not be somebody who's engaged in public, anti-Catholic polemics that attack infallible church teaching.

Best,
Robster

If you believe the Church is the Bride of Christ and communion is participation in His Body, the wedding metaphor is apt. As Orthodoxy assumes communion means complete unity of faith and ecclesiology -- and we don't have that with Rome -- I don't see this doctrine changing soon.

Thus, "invitations" for Orthodox to receive communion in RCC churches are confusing and unhelpful at best. If the RCC expects Orthodox visitors to commune, it's a tacit invitation to ignore Orthodox Church discipline, with the RCC as the enabler; if the RCC does not expect Orthodox visitors to commune, it is a meaningless form of spiritual pride. ("We'd invite you over, but your mean Mother won't let ya.") Either way, it's out of place and at best confuses Orthodox visitors.

I second your canonical legislation!

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]