www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Moscow Patriarchate says no way for UGC Patriarchate

I read this afternoon at RISU (Religious Information Service of Ukraine)That Moscow does not accept the idea of a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Patriarchate. From what I also understood is that if Rome does create such a Patriarchate than future relations with MOscow could be put i jeopardy.
I guess all of this was to be expected from the Moscow Patriarchate. What does Rome do now? Will it take Moscow's answer and tell the Ukrainians again that "This is not the time" again? What do Ukrainian Greek Catholics do now? Do we give up hope again? Do we sit back and wait for another 30 or 40 years?
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

If Rome does that, it will be no surprise to me at least.

I think this will provide us with yet another opportunity to grow up as a Particular and now Patriarchal Church.

Moscow sees us as "stolen property" by the Vatican.

Just as it would tell Rome to give back an icon or a saint's relics that crusaders may have taken way back when, Moscow will never accept the idea of a Particular UGCC with its own Patriarchate.

It will never accept the idea of a Ukrainian Orthodox Patriarchate that is independent of Moscow.

To be independent of Moscow is to be truly "uncanonical."

Ultimately, we should shed our dependency attitude toward Rome and become who we are already.

Our Patriarchal status doesn't depend on Rome, or Moscow. From a political point of view, these are our historic enemies - sorry, but I think it's true.

We can coexist with both of them, if they will accept us just as we are, rather than trying to remake us into their own image and likeness.

Let's get on with our own life and link up with our Orthodox brothers and sisters. Let's create union with them.

And then let's see if we care who recognizes us or not.

Alex

Dear Lauro:

From this Roman Catholic, humbly I submit that it is NOW or never!

We might not have a Pope as supportive of the East as His Holiness, John Paul II, in the near future.

Few things to do:

--Upgrade the UGCC from a Major Archbishopric to a Patriarchate, preferably centered in Kyiv.

--Recognize (or confirm) the election of Cardinal Husar as Patriarch of the Ukrainians, retroactive to July 2002.

--Convince (or invite) UOC-KP and UAOC to join in a united Unkrainian Church vs. the UOC-MP, or invite the latter to join in.

Of course, this is a VERY tall order.

AmdG

GOOD FOR YOU, AMADO!

DEAR FRIENDS,

I MOVE TO MAKE AMADO AN HONORARY UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC!

MABUHAY ANH FILIPINAS!!

Alex

I agree with working together with our Orthodox brothers, but as you know there are certain orders (and you know which one)that get in the way, and convincing certain people isn't very easy either. But let's see what happens.
Lauro

Dear Amado,
I agree with Alex. The only thing you need now is to read the KOBZAR by Taras Shevtchenko, puchase a trident, learn some Ukrainian songs and start drinking.
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

And I think we can even give Amado a "Ukrainian-sounding name."

Since "Amado" has to do with "love," a close name for him could be "Lubomyr" since "Lubov" is "love" too!

And since "Guerrero" suggests war or soldiers, we could call him "Lubomyr Voyin."

This will be great for all Ukrainians as we will feel special to have someone who isn't a native among our number!

Alex

I think we should tell Moscow to blow it out its ear. They have proven themselves time and again to be obstreperous beyond all bearing and their intransigence has placed them outside of any serious dialogue for the time being�until the present leadership of the Patriarchate is replaced by men who are both recognizably Christian and not certifiably paranoid former KGB henchmen.

Relations are already at a great low, so I can`t see how creating a UGCC patriarchate can further harm what is already in tatters. So my counsel to Rome would be: go ahead, make our day! Moscow will have its usual temper tantrum and when the hissy fit settles down we may begin to attempt a dialogue again. Until that time, they have made themselves ridiculous and should be treated accordingly.

Dear Adam,

I think you are wasted at that Institute!

Do they have a long-distance training program in Vatican diplomacy?

We can use you as our "Man in Rome!"

Alex

Dear Alex and Lauro:

I didn't know you have so many stringent requirements for becoming Ukrainian.

The last is done! Somehow, I have an inexplicable preference for "Black Russian" (vodka sweetened with kalu`a), although I can settle with "rum/cola."

As to the first 3 requirements, they might take a little longer.

AmdG

Dear Amado/Lubomyr,

"Black Russian" is fine - as long as it's not "Red."

Alex

I agree with Adam. Isn't there a precedent here about Catholics proclaiming Patriarchs? We have a Latin Patriarch in Jerusalem, don't we? Why can't we have one in Ukrain?

Dmitri

I'm so sick of that stuck up little Russian Church that frankly I could hurl. I say leave 'em in the dust of ecumenical relations if they're going to act like a spoiled little brat who can't have her way every time.

ChristTeen287

So as a Christian, when people are upset with you and don't see eye to eye, you tell them to go jump in a lake and cut them off, instead of continuing to talk with them?

In Christ,

anastasios

As a 15 year old Methodist from Georgia (state, not nation) I can't very well talk with or cut off the Russian Church. I'm just giving my opinion theoretically because I know I can't follow through on it.

If I were in a position to make that kind of decision, I'm not really sure what I'd do. I mean, both Catholic and Orthodox Churches have been bending over backwards for the MP time and time again, and so I think they've put the "continue to talk with them" into practice. However, there seems to be no progress, a realization after which there must be novel and drastic changes in this "ecumenical" relation with the MP.

ChristTeen287