www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Novus Ordoization of the Catholic Syriac rites

Can anyone explain to me why the Catholic Syriac Churches are in such a rush to rape the Novus Ordo. All, except the Syro-Malakara Catholic Church, celebrate their Divine Liturgies facing the people, use statues, Eucharistic exposition, their bishops all wear Latin mitres, altar girls, etc.?

Syro-Malabar: http://tinyurl.com/2fcpmq
Syriac: http://www.stjosephsyriaccc.com/New/images/af.jpg
Chaldean: http://tinyurl.com/yvl755
Maronite: http://www.sjmcc.org/

The usual phenomenon

Alas: those four web addresses don't seem to work.

Fr. Serge

Fr Serge-

your use of the plantation dialect term for "master" is inappropriate. I hope you will edit your post.

JohnRoss,

I must respectfully correct you.

Since the implementation of the revised Chaldean liturgy, the priest now faces the altar during the anaphora.

God bless you.

griego catolico

I have also seen the "Novus Ordoization" of the Coptic Catholic and Ge'ez Catholic liturgies as well.

Coptic Catholic: priest facing people, statues, use of the Novus Ordo "I confess to Almighty God...", Novus Ordo translation of the Nicene Creed

Ge-ez Catholic: priest facing people, use of unleavened Roman-rite bread, use of electronic keyboards

These are often used in the Oriental Orthodox Ge'ez Liturgy as well. One is used by the local Ethiopian "Cathedral" (Bishop's See, not sure what they call that for the Ethiopian Church), in fact.

Peace and God bless!

Interesting pictures.

Since the implementation of the revised Chaldean liturgy, the priest now faces the altar during the anaphora.

>>Good to hear. Has the revised Chaldean liturgy been brought closer to the Assyrian Church of the East's usage. Considering that Vatican II said we were supposed to restore our traditions,it is rather sad that some Eastern Catholics have chosen to head in the opposite direction.

I am sure the Novusordoization of the Coptic Catholic liturgy doesn't sit well with the Coptic Orthodox, but the latter have their own problems, namely the Protestantization of their spirituality, at least in the US.

I had also heard that many Romanian Byzantine Catholics in the old country celebrate the Divine Liturgy facing the people.

JohnRoss,

For more info on the revised Chaldean liturgy, click here: http://www.kaldu.org/WeeklyNews.html

Then click on to the links found in the section, "The Reformed Chaldean Mass".

Although the liturgy has been reformed to get rid of latinizations, there is one parish that uses keyboards and drums for its "English Mass" as well as altar girls. There are pictures posted on the site above.

I should also make a clarification...

Although the priest at the Coptic Catholic parish in Los Angeles faces the people for the liturgy (I have attended there a few times), I've been told that the priest at the Coptic Catholic parish in New York faces the altar.

Almost my only claim to expert knowledge of the Coptic Catholic Liturgy is having been involved in a lovely celebration in the Coptic Catholic Cathedral in Cairo on Pentecost about ten years ago. The priests indeed faced the East, except for such obvious moments as the sermon.

Fr. Serge

The Latinization (or Ordoization in this case) of the Syrian churches is something very popular amongst their particular Catholic tradition, coming from the birth relations of their communion with Rome. The Syrians, sadly, have been the most Latinized of the traditions considering their relatively small size and lack of political clout making them malleable and easy to Latinize---especially in the third worlds, where this ancient tradition is mostly found. If one looks at the birth of these individual churches, there begins a history of Latinization often formed under the pretenses of "correct" tradition and theology, or an attempt to save the particular faith (whether that latters intention was honorable or not is left to history). In the past it was continued missionary effort and reinforcement of papal aims by these missionaries and legates that was the main cause of Latinization of these vulnerable churches. Modern days, I would attribute the continued adaptation of the Latins (N.O. elements in this case) to the ecouragement of the Latin prelates often predating the establishment of churches in the Diaspora, the encouragement by the fellow Catholic community to pronounce its level of "Catholicity," the continued reliance of these third world churches on Rome, and the influx of Latin attending EC and OC parishes in the West. However, there is a new air of tradition and an encouragement to return back to what Rome once replaced; to what extent these churches are doing so on their own accord is anything but progressive or apparent, save the occasional Chaldean priest facing the alter, IMO. Not that these churches aren't making crossroads, but what is tradition for them is tradition that Rome placed there, and the question of, "Why change tradition?" comes up when discussing the return to leavened bread and other traditional Syriac forms. Only time will tell to what extent the Syrian churches will return to their patrimony, and also, to what extent Rome will allow it; I cite the banning of married EC priests in the Diaspora as a tragic example.

The customs found among their corresponding Syriac Orthodox and Assyrian Church of the East counterparts are practically unrecognizable in comparison. I attended a Syriac Orthodox Divine Liturgy once, and I was completely lost because it was so foreign to me.

It reminded me more of the Armenian liturgies, both Catholic and Orthodox, that I have attended over the years.