www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Our Lady of Guadalupe

Of course, what purpose would the evil one have in producing visions of that nature? I do not know

Ah, another assuption I do not share.

I do not believe the Medjugorje event is of divine origin, but I do not believe it is of satanic origin either.

This area in Croatia is particularly poor and the "visions" have brought in a lot of money from the tourists (err... pilgrims?)

It doesn't take God or the devil, just a very clever business-person.

I tend to believe that they are actually apparitions given to the children for their spiritual welfare, and the spiritual welfare of others. She keeps telling the children to pray. Basically, nothing else! Now what could be more beneficial spiritually than that?

Hello,


Pope John Paul The Great elevated the celebration to the rank of Feast for the entire American continent. It is the National Patronal Feast and therefore a Solemnity in Mexico.


That is simplifying things a little too much. The "original" account of the apparition is a narrative called "Nican Mopohua" and in it, Our Lady never claims that the Aztec gods were false.

The Aztecs were actually developing monotheism when all this happened. The current theology at the time was that there was One True God called Teotl and that the various gods of the Aztec pantheon were different manifestations of Teotl.

In the translations of the Nican Mopohua, there is usually an emphasis in the words of Our Lady identifying herself as "The Mother of the Very True God, the Giver of Life". However, what is usually translated as "the Giver of Life" is the Nahuatl word Ipalnemohuani, which is not only the name of one of the gods of the pantheon, but also the first of a list of names of gods Our Lady is claiming to be the Mother of. The Nahuatl text reads:

Maxicmatti, ma huel yuh ye in moyollo, noxocoyouh, ca nehuatl in nicenquizca cemicac Ichpochtli Sancta Maria, in Inantzin in huel nelli Teotl Dios, in Ipalnemohuani, in Teyocoyani, in Tloque Nahuaque, in Ilhuicahua, in Tlalticpaque.

Which should be translated as:

Please know, and put in your heart, my little son, the most beloved, that I am the perfect, Ever Virgin Saint Mary, and I have the privilege to be the Mother of the Very True God, of Ipalnemohuani (The Giver of Life), of Teyocoyani (The Creator of People), of Tloque Nahuaque (The Owner of what is near and what is far), of Ilhuicahua Tlaltipaque (The Lord of Heaven and Earth).

The list and the use of the actual names of the Aztec gods would look like a convalidation that the Aztecs were on the right theological path, which parallels the way St. Paul talked to the Greeks of Our Lord as the "Unknown god" of their own pantheon.

In general, the whole Nican Mopohua presents Christianity, not as a replacement for the Aztec religion, but as the true fulfilment of the Aztecs' thirst for spiritual life.

The Nican Mopohua suggest the mass conversion of the natives happened only when their own scribes examined the image and found it of divine origin. They understood their time had passed, that their mission was now given to the Christian bishop. They simply accepted the revelation and obeyed the message.


Not only no human preservation. The image now is framed and in air-tight glass, but for several decades, it was completly exposed and within the reach of the hands of the faithful, who rarely missed the chance to touch it.

The image also survived a bomb detonation during the time of the Cristero war. An iron crucifix, or what remains of it, that used to be right next to it can still be seen at the basilica.

Its survival to our days is indeed, remarkable.


Shalom,
Memo

Oh, I was wrong they're Roman Catholic.

All of this is a very interesting post. Can you recommend a good, solid book on the subject of Our Lady of Guadalupe?

That I do not accept.

Actually though, it may be a cultural thing.

Do the Orthodox accept the sighting of the Theotokos in Zeitoun, Egypt over a Coptic Church in the 1960's?

For the record, there is no tradition in the Latin Church for fasting on Saturdays.

Strictly speaking, all Fridays are days of abstinence, although in most places, this abstinence is only observed during Lent.

Other than that, fasting is only prescribed for Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, although it is suggested to continue Good Friday's fast through Holy Saturday until the Easter Vigil.

And it shouldn't surprise anybody that Our Lady would be glorified the most in Russia. The Byzantine devotion to the Mother of God is second to none, including the Latin tradition.

Shalom,
Memo

In addition, the WEEKLY Friday Fast, throughout the year, has NEVER been abrogated by Rome - and I don't know where Latin Catholics get the idea that it was.