www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Why not the Eastern Orthodox Church?

Given the amount of discomfort felt toward the Revised Liturgy and latinizations in the Byzantine Catholic Church, what are the reasons for remaining Byzantine Catholic? I understand the desire to be Orthodox in communion with Rome, but without Rome, wouldn't you be more free to be Orthodox? I'm sorry if my questions hurt or offend anyone.

I think it comes down to the fact that some people are just afraid to leave the Catholic church. They think that salvation ONLY exists within the ROMAN communion.

OTOH, Why is it to this day that practically NO Roman Catholic knows what a Byzantine Catholic is, despite all the Vatican propaganda about two lungs, appreciating one another, yada yada yada. I've given up on trying to educate ignorant Roman Catholics about the East because NOTHING I tell them convinces them that there are actually CATHOLICS whose church is just like an Orthodox church, (If they even know what that is, or that it is even a CHRISTIAN church) but it IS REALLY CATHOLIC! UNDER THE POPE! They just don't believe it! How can it be Catholic, and not be like my Irish parish? It's hopeless!

In a single word?

The Pope.

Dimsiss that as hopeless latinized if you like - many will. For all the apologetic and polemic I have read either way, I cannot walk away from the Petrine office.

I am not looking for a an argument or debate here. That is being done already. Simply speaking, when you ask why remain Catholic, I answer you: I have come to believe and accept the Catholic teaching on the Petrine ministry.

That is why.

I am sorry if what I am going to say may sound ignorant ...
What "discomfort"?

I am a Melkite Catholic (Byzantine by nature, Liturgy and tradition) and I actually like the small modifications that actually help me exist both in ancient tradition and the modern world.

Amen! I believe in the Petrine ministry and I believe with all my heart that being Catholic (espiecially an Eastern Catholic!) is not a burden but a gift from God.

I do as well...that's why I am an Orthodox Christian not under Rome...The Petrine ministry is found in all bishops not specifically one...

Chris

I disagree, that's why I am an Orthodox Christian in communion with Rome

Don't you think it's odd that no one has noticed that it's the POPE of Rome that SAID that being in communion with the POPE is the only way to "salvation." THE POPE SAID IT!!! Not the Church, Ecumencial Councils, etc.

I do believe that the Pope has the Primacy of Peter, but certainly I do NOT believe that being in communion with the Pope is the way to "salvation." Even Christ didn't even say that. Christ said that His the Way and Truth to the true Salvation.

I'm speaking as a Catholic point of view...I'm Orthodox now...but was Catholic for most of my life and this is the view I hold now as it was before.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

I'm inclined to agree with you.

Tertullian
,
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, my brother, and not assume that you are proselytizing, for that would be very tacky on a Byzantine Catholic site.

I am from Rusyn Greek Catholic stock, not Orthodox. This is my faith with which I am comfortable.
Asking Byzantine Catholics why they remain faithful to their church is similar to asking the Patriarch of Moscow and his bishops and priests why they object to the building and nurturing of Greek Catholic Churches in "Russia", be it Romanian, Armenian, Rusyn, Ukraine, or any other.

Our Bishops, priests, and relatives suffered much for their faith in our ancestral lands under the rule of the Communists, and our church was "liquidated" with the help of the Orthodox. Now Eastern Christianity is weakened and its parishes and families are splintered by this division.

There has been enough damage done by this division and I'm tired of it. I would prefer that everyone remain in our Church, but if you prefer the Orthodox Divine Liturgy it is better that you leave, rather than continue to deride us because we prefer to remain faithful.

s'nami Boh.
Father Deacon Paul

"...that's why I am an Orthodox Christian in communion with Rome"

On the flip side, this title gets thrown around a lot on this forum. "Orthodox In Communion With Rome". It is a term that here seems to be interchangeable with Byzantine Catholic.
I'd like to know how many Orthodox Christian churches refer to Byzantine Catholics as "OICWR". We can call ourselves whatever we want, but in reality who else out there recognizes this title?
Sam

Sam,

Does it really matter what anyone else calls you? Perhaps Roman Catholics should simply have their beliefs and faith and be happy. Byzantine Catholics should do the same. Orthodox should do the same. We should be good neighbors to one another, cooperate in wholesome civil activities, and then leave each other alone to worship in our own ways and believe what we want to believe. As long as people are trying to be good to others and as long as we promote kindness and respect, then what does it matter what we believe about other Churches and communions? Why do we need to have monolithic unity? Why not let one club have its own rules and the other have its own rules and we just rerspect that and be nice to one another?

Joe

Frankly I generally don't like to use it (though I don't see myself as "heterodox in communion with Rome"!!!) because it demands too many qualifications.

Eli-

The original question refers to a translation of the Divine Liturgy used by the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church in the US (AKA the "Byzantine Catholic Church") which some people are upset about. There's no reason for you have seen any of these "objectionable" things in the Holy Land.

As for the original question-

There's no way you can answer the question in a way that isn't in the end really personal. So, for me ....

I honestly have to wonder what would be wrong, what would be better. If some sort of outrage happened at my parish I had to pick between the five Orthodox Churches nearby me, what would I gain? There are two I would think of joining (I don't think I could stay in the others for various reasons), but would my parish life be better? Would the people there be generally indifferent to their faith? Would the parish be basically an ethnic club? Might they have liturgical outrages there, like organs and pseudo-American protestant choral music instead of Byzantine Chant? Might they have some bizarre architecture in their parish?

I don't mean to knock on anyone's parish, but there's no liturgical perfection anywhere, and while I think outrages may be good reason to leave a parish (if you have better alternatives) I think that's a bad reason to leave communion with Rome.

As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to leave communion with Rome if you're in communion is because you really think that the position the Pope holds today, as professed by the Vatican and explained by key Vatican figures (e.g. then-Cardinal Ratzinger) is an unambiguous heresy, and that what the Orthodox Church teaches about eccelsiology is the real teaching of the apostles.

Of course, the role of the Pope is only one example; the same could be said for filioque and the like.

Markos

(going back a few posts now I understand - thank you!)