www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Declining attendance in the Byzantine Catholic Church

These parishes would not have the opportunity to offer multiple masses?

The parish I attend offers a Tridentine masses, a Latin Novus Ordo, and then two English masses on Sunday; though I don't know what type of mass is offered at 6am on Sundays, I haven't been to that one.

Is it the bishop who denies the Slavonic?

I'm not arguing for feminism or "political correctness," but if you have a Divine Liturgy in Slavonic or even a half and half mixture, the Joe and Mary Smiths that attend will not understand what's going on, get bored, and won't return.

There's nothing wrong with Slavonic, Ukrainian, Tagalog, Mongolian, or any other language. WASP America will not attend any other service but in English more than once. The problem is with our culture not with Rusyn culture. People eat Mexican and Chinese food all the time, but they don't attend a Spanish Mass or a Buddhist temple every week. Americans want superficial multiculturalism but nothing deep... too much of a commitment!

Those who want to use Slavonic should be free to do so. Unfortunately, some parishes are so Slavonic they become ethnic country clubs. That will discourage visitors - aka potential converts - faster than anything.

Actually, I know of several Irish,German,Italian,(etc.) Roman Catholics who joined Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic parishes who love to hear parts of the liturgy sung in Church Slavonic. But, then again they came to the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church to escape the bland, modernistic NO Roman liturgies. They came because the were looking for solemn celebrated liturgies. They don't have a problem with hearing parts of the liturgy in a tradtional liturgical language, like Church Slavonic. I always thank them when I see them at our church because they appreciate authentic liturgical tradition. In fact, since the parish has been "mandated" to use the RDL, they are quite upset, even more so then most "cradle" Ruthenian Byzantine Catholics! I wish we had more of these traditional-minded Roman Catholic refugees in our church.

U-C

I would be more than happy (as well as MANY others, and not only here in the "Pirohy Belt") to start a church exclusively for the Slavic Byzantine Catholics. We can create a church sort of like the Polish National Catholic Church has done.

Check them out at: http://www.pncc.org/

U-C

When I lived in St. Louis, I attended an UGCC. The Liturgy was half-English and half-Ukrainian. Most of the people who were there were 1st generation Ukrainians followed by 2nd generation Ukrainian-Americans. Myself and one other man were the only ones there who had no Ukrainian blood in us. Suffice it to say, there were only about 20 people at the Liturgy at any time.

Diagnosis: Ukrainian is a language that Americans don't understand and therefore don't wish to participate in, except for those few people who don't follow the usual conventions.

That's fine, but don't expect it to attract new members from the WASP populace.

I keep reading that the BCA is dying off, a return to languages that only a select few understand is not the way to get more new members. (Except for a few who are off the beaten path to begin with.)

Do you really think this is the best way of sorting out problems ?

Have you per chance looked at their numbers or the history of sacramental theology and praxis over in Scranton?

Better still, maybe you could apply to them to set up a Eastern Rite PNCC.

But all joking aside, even the suggestion of that is utterly bizarre to me from the stand point of you have your options already among the Ukies (Cath & Orthodox) ACROD, OCA... You mean to tell me that even among these options, nothing is palatable? So much so you would even give thought to yet another schism? A little telling how particular your vision of a church is.

Just for irony, do make sure you open a parish in McKee's Rocks so that there can then be FIVE eastern parishes (plus PNCC) so close to each other you can jump from the steps of one to the next.

Slavic Byzantine National Catholic Church? Kind of a mouthful.

Isn't that the way it has worked for centuries?

If you don't like it, switch, or find/create a new rite and disassociate with Rome. Anglicans were Catholics once, right (and are now part of the Utrecht Union)? What about all of the different autocephalous Orthodox Churches there are in the world?

Just look at the various "Return to Orthodoxy" movements. St. Alexis Toth took 30,000+ Byzantine Catholics with him after his dealings with the Roman Catholic Bishop John Ireland of Minneapolis.

What were us Byzantine Catholics before the Unions of Brest-Litovsk and Uzhorod?

I note your comments and thank you for your observations

Rusyn31,

And you will notice most if not all have services entirely in English and some parishes drop the Polish and simply proclaim themselves National Catholic in an effort to to show their Church is not just for Polish ethnics or that one has to fake being so to join.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Oh, it was just a suggestion. It makes you wonder how our ancestors felt when they created the different churches because of the problems they had back in the day.

I have no real intentions of that for now..... Also with OCA, ACROD, UGCC, as well as Ukrainian and Romanian Orthodox Churches, I have all the choices I need, especially in McKees Rocks.

I could have gone to St. Mark's Slovak Roman Catholic Church, but Bishop Wuerl did a good job of mish-mashing the Roman Catholic Churches in the Rox, creating St. John of God parish that used to be 7 or 8 different ethnic churches. Now they're all crammed into either the German or Italian churches.

I am just sad that the closest ACROD Church is across the bridge in North Side 2 miles away, there should have been one in the Rox...

BTW, the PNCC Church is up the hill, not in the Bottoms, and the Romanian Orthodox Church is down the road in Pittock.

If I were to start a "new" church in the Bottoms, I would try and get those in my church that have signed the petition to get rid of the RDL and return to the Slavonic Liturgy. That right there is a simple majority of the active parish membership. All you need is a simple majority, right.

The one time I attended an Eastern Catholic church was because the Divine Liturgy was in Old Church Slavonic. I went in knowing I wouldn't understand it; however, I have attended Roman Catholic Mass in a tourist area that switched off between Latin, English, German and Slovene. I knew every word, even the words I didn't know, because I'm familiar with the Mass. Someone familiar with the Divine Liturgy in another language should have no trouble figuring out the Old Church Slavonic.

Like it or not, the Byzantine Churches are ethnic, and if you try to eliminate that in hopes of bringing in newcomers, you'll lose alot more people than you could ever hope to bring in, and consequently have to close your parish.

I've spoken to enough elderly parishoners who have sadly told me about sons and daughters, adult grandchildren, etc who only attend church on occasion or not at all, to conclude that getting those people back in the fold is the answer.

Personally I hate the idea of accomadating and catering to people to get them to join. I go to a Ukrainian Church, so I make it a point to know a bit about Ukrainian history, culture etc. In fact I was told before our recent picnic that I was an honorary Ukrainian.