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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 114
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"there are too few mean willing to be priests"
I wish there were fewer MEAN guys who want to be priests.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,346 Likes: 1
Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,346 Likes: 1 |
I'm going to earn myself some umbrage. Earlier in my life, I was a member of an Episcopal parish before I became Orthodox and we had a woman priest. Taking communion from woman priest is no different than taking it from the hands of a man. Despite pious platitudes to the contrary, it is a matter of discipline. Just as tomorrow the Latin Church could do away with celibacy, so also --despite all the comments to the contrary--it could allow women priests. It will only happen when there are too few mean willing to be priests.
Just my two cents worth. John, It's not that simple. Both Catholicism and Orthodoxy consider the issue of priesthood to be ontological, not just disciplinary. Pope John Paul II had stated that the Church does not have any authority from Our Lord Jesus Christ to ordain women priests. In other words, Bishop Flapdoodle can lay hands on as many women as he wishes, but the end result is that a priest is not ordained. Also, see comments by Bishop Kallistos (Ware) in OCA Fr. Thomas Hopko's 1984 book on why the Orthodox Church does not ordain women priests. He cites an apostolic document that indicates that women are not allowed to celebrate the Eucharist because "the Lord would not have it". Hope that clarifies. In Christ, Dn. Robert
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Joined: May 2004
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Dn.Robert, I believe we're both referring to the same book. Here is a link to the title and a photo of the book.http://www.ecampus.com/book/0881411469.
As usual, Fr. Tom was right on the money.
The reason nude or near-nude baptims would seem outrageous to us today reveals just how colored by the secular,non-sacramental, non-liturgical worldview our view of life and liturgry has become over the centuries since the early Church.
The above is intriguing considering the modesty of the early church and the present day bombardment of flesh. They were more modest, but saw nothing wrong with nude baptisms we show skin 24-7 and are appalled at the thought of a nude baptism. Whose view of the human body is more skewed?
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Joined: Jun 2002
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in interviews, Bishop +Kallistos has indicated that although he personally does not believe women should be ordained, he has said that it is not subject that the Orthodox Church has closed to discussion and that the discussion needs to go on as he commented that many of the arguments against and for are not convincing.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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So the case is open - also with the orthodox sister church...
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From the Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, of Pope John Paul II, of blessed memory: 4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful. Copyright � Libreria Editrice Vaticana For Catholics, this question has been permanently settled as of May 22, 1994. That "this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful" ends this letter leaves no room for further doubt or discussion. In Christ, BOB
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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From the Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, of Pope John Paul II, of blessed memory: 4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful. Copyright � Libreria Editrice Vaticana For Catholics, this question has been permanently settled as of May 22, 1994. That "this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful" ends this letter leaves no room for further doubt or discussion. In Christ, BOB Bingo. There, you have it! Dn. Robert
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,346 Likes: 1 |
The article below is extracted from the Catholic World News website. It reflects perfectly how Modernists reject any absolutes. The Pope teaches definitively that women can't be ordained, and Bishop Flapdoodle wants to open the topic for dicussion once again! It also shows how the "Progressivist" mindset confuses categories. While the question of male-only ordination to Holy Orders is an ontological one, the question of ordination of married men is disciplinary! But, that doesn't stop these people! Dn. Robert http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=53085 Australian bishop backs reconsideration of celibacy, women's ordination Canberra, Aug. 23, 2007 (CWNews.com) - Bishop Pat Power, an auxiliary of the Canberra, Australia diocese, has indicated his support for an end to mandatory clerical celibacy, and suggested a new discussion of the possibility of ordaining women. In a public response to a campaign by Australian Catholic activists to end the celibacy discipline, Bishop Power said that while Vatican leaders are unwilling to reconsider the issue, among "ordinary Catholics" he has found both support and "a sense of urgency" about the need for change. "Where there is the conviction that the Eucharist is at the heart of Catholic belief and practice, there must be questions asked about disciplinary laws in the Church which have the net effect of denying many Catholics regular access to the Eucharist," the Australian bishop wrote. He said that by limiting priestly ministry to celibate men the Church was in effect restricting access to the Eucharist "because of the scarcity of priests." Bishop Power went on the praise Australian activists for raising the question of ordination for women. The bishop said that he recognized "the sensitivity to the question at the level of the Vatican," but called for "a more open and thorough examination of the issues around the ordination of women and the whole structure of the priesthood." Pope John Paul II (bio - news) closed the discussion of women's ordination with his 1994 apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (doc). Pope John Paul wrote: "I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful." The Australian bishop said that he had often suggested changes in Church teaching and discipline regarding the priesthood, but found little support for his proposals. He blamed the problem on the opposition of Vatican officials-- whose attitudes, he said, have produced "a greater encroachment on the life of the local Church" in recent years.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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One must differentiate between the ordination of women (to the order of deaconess, for example) and the priesthood. Many times liberal/progressives cite documents that support one and subtly shift the topic of discussion to the latter. I support a restoration of the order of deaconess, there is Apostolic-Patristic support for it, but we should not let the pseudo-"scholars" mislead others by shifting the topic of discussion.
Last edited by Michael_Thoma; 08/24/07 11:22 AM.
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