www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Conmemorating infidels/heretics in the Liturgy?

Hey

As far as I have investigated, it's not forbidden in the Councils to pray for non-Orthodox (or Non-Catholic) rulers (kings, governing people), and I assume it must be the same in the West as St. Augustine the Blessed writes that the sacrifice is offered for those who are already members of Christ and those who are able to become members (De Origine Animae).

Therefore it wouldn't have been forbidden for the Copts or the Constantinople Church or the Catholic communities in those countries to pray for the Turkish Sultan (although I understand that they most likely did not do this).

But what happens when this involves heretics? (Queen Elizabeth, President Bush, the King of Sweden). This practice is very usual among both Orthodox and Catholics in Canada and other countries. A Latin priest told me that in their Church they can't name excommunicated people eventhough some theologians in the Eastn and the west might say that these are public or private prayers (to me the Anaphora or the Ektenias seem very public but I don't know how they make this distinction).

They also say it is permissible, because even though these individuals (President Bush, Queen Elizabeth, etc) are outside the Church, they have not been "excommunicated" individualy.

What is the correct way to understand this?

For my two cents worth this afternoon, I'd say we sould pray for anyone who asks for our prayers and any civil authorities who might be where God has placed them in relation to us.

Let God be the Judge of the person, his status, his religion, his internal workings of spirit. Just pray for them all. No prayer is wasted.

Besides, remember what the Liturgy is: our transportation and transformation into the Mystery of Christ--His Passion, Death, Resurrection, Ascension, and Second Coming. The entire Mystery is meant for all of us. So be transformed into the same kind of generosity that Christ showed to us that even when we were sinners, He came to save us.

Besides, someone might in his generosity of spirit pray for me and I need all the help I can get. How about you?

BOB

Saint Peter said, "Maintain good conduct among the Gentiles, so that in case they speak against you as wrongdoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation. Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right"
(1 Peter 2:12-14).

There were no Christian emperors or kings at the time. Why would Peter tell us to be "subject to the emperor as supreme" if he is not a Christian, but probably would have persecuted the Church?

Saint Paul said, "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way" (1 Timothy 2:1-2).

Again, there were no Christian emperors or kings at the time. Why would Paul urge us that "prayers be made for kings" if he is not a Christian, but probably would have persecuted the Church?

Christ tells us, "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust" (Matthew 5:43-45).

By praying for our leaders regardless of their religious affiliation, beliefs, heresies etc, we are affirming apostolic teaching.

"For the honorable government of our country and all civil authorities and for our armed forces, let us pray to the Lord."

Ray

We pray for those in civil authority, whether they be right believing or not, because their power and authority comes to them only by the grace of God.

Alexandr