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The Marriage in an Eastern Church is of two parts - Betrohal and Crowning. The Betrothal includes exchange of the rings, procession, declaration of intent, and lighting of candles. The Crowning includes readings from the epistle and gospel, the Blessing of the Common Cup, and the Dance of Isaiah (the bride and groom are led around the table 3 times), and then the Removal of the Crowns. There should be no exchange of vows. The couple coming to the Church for Crowning is bringing into the Church what Christ has begun in the world. In the old countries, the Betrohal may have been done a year before the marriage, but because of today because of indicision it is done before the Crowning. In our Church for example, some may become Betroathed the year before with a very opulent party and then they spend that year getting to know each other's families very, very well. Often once the betrohal takes place, at least in the Middle Eastern culture, they are really considered married, but the Crowning has not taken place yet, so it is not complete. - This is all of course from my limited exposure.  Betrothal: The exchanging of rings is the focus of the Service of Betrothal. The priest blesses the rings by holding them in his right hand and making the sign of the cross over the heads of the bride and groom. The rings are then placed on the third fingers of their right hands. A number of rituals in the ceremony are repeated three times and this symbolizes the Holy Trinity: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Crowning: Crowns of royalty: in marriage, the husband and wife become king and queen of a new unit of society, a new family, a little church. Crowns of martyrdom: the word martyr really means witness; and so man and wife should give witness of God's undying love for them as they journey through life growing and suffering, rejoicing and loving. Crowns of the Kingdom: marriage is a living relationship, one that grows continually and only finds its fulfillment in the Kingdom of God. http://www.byzantines.net/liturgy/marriage.htmAn interesting article in New Advent on Marriage http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09703b.htm
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That was beautiful. Thanks for posting that. I was deeply impressed. Don't stop posting!
Tim
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That was great! I love her dress and veil. Much different than most dresses I have seen. The colored train was neat. Congratulations to one and all! Many happy years!
Tim
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In the old countries, the Betrohal may have been done a year before the marriage, but because of today because of indicision it is done before the Crowning. This is not part of the Ukrainian tradition. In the Ukrainian Orthodox tradition most weddings are on Saturdays in North America and in Ukraine, after the litrgy on Sundays. Here is a web site that outlines the Ukrainian Orthodox tradition: Question: I am Ukranian orthodox but I do not know much about the wedding ceremony. Can you please send me all steps and its significance? Answer: The Holy Mystery of Matrimony begins with the rite of betrothal at the entrance of the Church. The couple stand side by side before the priest, who represents our Lord Himself - the One who has brought them together and guided them to take this step. They enter from the west going toward the east - symbolically from the darkness of sin and alienation, to the light of love and union - a unity in diversity, in which the two will become one while remaining two distinct beings. The priests asks if it is of their own will that they wish to marry and if they are being faithful to promises they have made. Freedom and fidelity are essential attributes to a lasting marriage. The priest places rings on the the ring finger of their right hands and the couple exchanges these rings, for the bride's ring has been placed upon the groom's hand and vice versa. For you see, the Lord gives us the grace of Matrimony, but we also must make it our own by our own actions and orientation. Holding each other's hand - as in a fraternal handshake, covered by the priest's stole, the protection of the Lord, they move deeper into the Church - deeper into the Mystery of loving union in God and stand before the Tetrapod. This is a table before the Iconastasis which represents the Holy Table, just as the Holy Table represents the Mystical Presence of God Himself behind the Iconastasis. It is at this Tetrapod, the type of the Holy Table at which the rite of Matrimony takes place. The couple are given candles to hold as a symbol of the purity of their love and faith in God and each other. In our Ukrainian tradition they stand upon embroidered towels, provided by their families to show that they are walking upon a good path which has already been trod by those who have gone before and serve as examples and witnesses to encourage them to be faithful and loving to each other. Crowns are placed over their heads - symbols of martyrdom, for they are to die to themselves and find new life in this union where each loves the other as Christ loves the Church and finds a new identity in this loving surrender. There is also the aura of authority about these crowns which are usually held above the heads rather than placed outright to show that something is given which is yet to be attained. The Gospel is read over their heads, which are as an Altar upon which it shall find a distinguished place throughout their lives as they strive to seek and to do the will of the Lord which it proclaims. Their hands are bound together - also by an embroidered towel, the symbolism of which is obvious! While their hands are so bound they partake of a cup of wine mingled with water - a symbol of the Eucharist, the epitome of the mystical union Christ gives us with God and each other (the couple should have received the Eucharist together in preparation for the Mystery of Matrimony - at one time this reception of the Eucharist together was the substance of the Mystery of Matrimony itself). They walk about the Tetrapod three times, led by the priest as the choir sings hymns about Isaiah's dance of joy, the martyrs' testimony and the glory of the Trinity -God, Who has made us to be perfectly one in diversity, just as He is One and Three at one and the same time. "The two shall be one and the one shall be two." The crowns are removed and the couple receives a blessing with Holy Icons, which then become a continual Altar for them in their homes, before which they can come and renew their commitment and pray for guidance and strength for each other throughout their lives. They exchange a holy kiss as the congregation sings "Many years" to them. This is essentially the rite of Matrimony as it is practiced in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Some variations do occur depending upon local custom and the inspiration and experience of the celebrant. The symbols, too, are much more profound than we can elaborate here. Those who are alert in humility and wonder will discover ever so much more as they themselves participate in this wonderful Mystery and as they assist in others' embarkment upon this joyous and challenging adventure which has been and shall always be one of the Lord's greatest blessings to the human race. Very Rev. Ihor Kutash kutash@unicorne.org http://www.unicorne.org/orthodoxy/articles/answers/wedding.htm
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I wonder if any of these choices are optional. Because I do respect the customs, but my girlfriends family being not catholic and having always dreamed of walking their daughter down the aisle would be heartbroken if we chose a ceremony that neglected it. I do not think we can do this.
I have not officially changed rites, however, I may some day, but it may not be unti lafter I got married. But I could get married in a Ruthenian church with permission. However, since I think that we need to have a wedding that her family can udnerstand and feel comfortable with, this either means I might have to unregister at the Byzantine church (which I want to stay registered to and support) or try to figure out if there is a way to stay registered there and yet marry elsewhere, or if it is possible to marry there but with a slightly different ceremony. I would consider this, because no church is as beautiful to me as the Byxantine church and no style of worship is as meaningful to me either (though I am comfortable with the others) but because I respect it so much, I would not want to try too hard to insist on altering any traditions for me. I kind of think that I need to go all the way Eastern or not at all. But still, if there were options I may consider them.
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I wonder if any of these choices are optional. Because I do respect the customs, but my girlfriends family being not catholic and having always dreamed of walking their daughter down the aisle would be heartbroken if we chose a ceremony that neglected it. I do not think we can do this. I think it is time for you to discuss these concerns with your parish priest. You can just say you are looking at all the options before you decide. If walking down the aisle with her father is the bride's greatest concern, probably the priest would allow it. Would that be enough for her? I was talking to a Greek Orthodox co-worker today about this topic and he said he has seen a mixed marriage in his own parish and the priest did allow the walk down the aisle because it was a mixed marriage. Then the betrothal service started at the tetrapod instead on in the ambo at the back. Just by chance one of my son's was watching the film "The Deerhunter" when I came home from work on video. I glanced in just at the wedding scene. What a scene! May I suggest you show this part of the movie to your girlfriend? The church really does look like "Heaven on earth." Also almost all the service is in English. It is so beautiful I she you would agree to a marriage in your church after seeing this scene. Also you will notice that the priest starts the service at the tetrapod and not as per usual in the ambo. This would give her an idea of how the service would progress after her father walks her down the aisle. God bless.
Last edited by Miller; 08/28/07 08:01 PM. Reason: Spelling
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The father of the bride can walk his daughter from the rectory or the brides room. Then the brides parents - dad & mom, will follow the couple down the isle. After that the grooms parents follow.
So in a sence they are still walking her down the isle, but instead they are walking with her, not taking her down the isle.
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As to the wedding scene in the "Deerhunter" there has been considerable debate as to whether it was a Byzantine-Ruthenian wedding that was used, an Orthodox wedding or even an American Carpatho-Rusyn Diocease wedding that was used. I happen to be Byzantine-Ruthenian so I know it would had to have been in a VERY traditional BR church for it to look like that in the 1960's. All sides say they are correct, but I will not even hazard an opinion.
Anyone else have one?
Tim
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As to the wedding scene in the "Deerhunter" there has been considerable debate as to whether it was a Byzantine-Ruthenian wedding that was used, an Orthodox wedding or even an American Carpatho-Rusyn Diocease wedding that was used. I happen to be Byzantine-Ruthenian so I know it would had to have been in a VERY traditional BR church for it to look like that in the 1960's. All sides say they are correct, but I will not even hazard an opinion.
Anyone else have one?
Tim The wedding scene for "The Deer Hunter" was filmed at St. Theodosius OCA cathedral in Cleveland Ohio. The church was founded by former Greek Catholic Rusyns.
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Quite a string of questions. Let's see what I can do:
1) the cup of wine in the wedding service (do the Ruthenians use it?) is blessed only; it is not Eucharistic. It was Eucharistic many centuries ago. Yes, it is possible (depending on the Bishop) to have the wedding service integrated with the Divine Liturgy. The present rubrics specify that the wedding service takes place immediately after the Divine Liturgy.
2) Assuming that the non-Catholic or non-Orthodox party to the marriage is a baptized Christian, the marriage may take place in Church and both spouses should share the cup of wine (which, again, is not Eucharistic).
3) There is no particular rubric or prayer which would direct the spouses to kiss during the wedding service - save it for the reception.
4) We are supposed to do weddings on Sunday. We are not supposed to do weddings on Saturday, nor on any fast day, nor during a fasting period.
Fr. Serge Bless Father! I am impressed! Very Orthodox answers! I know of Orthodox clerics who would do well to follow your guidelines! Alexandr
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St. Theodosius Russian Orthodox Cathedral is located on Starkweather Avenue in the Tremont neighborhood of Cleveland, Ohio. St. Theodosius is perhaps best known for its appearance in the 1977 film, The Deer Hunter with Robert DeNiro and Meryl Streep. St. Theodosius Cathedral is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Theodosius_Russian_Orthodox_CathedralThe church is OCA now built in 1911, so I suspect Rusyn roots because of the date. Also the church is listed as �Russian Orthodox� like many of the older Rusyn parishes now with the OCA. Here is the web site for the parish: http://sttheodosius.org/home_1.htmlBy the way, it states "All services in English". So much for Rusyn heritage. Interestingly enough, the Widipedia article: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter) assumes the church in the movie is Orthodox. However, the funeral in the movie is supposed to be in a Byzantine Catholic Church according to the article. The wedding really stands out in my mind but I can remember the funeral at all. Does anyone remember anything specifically Byzantine Catholic about the funeral? �Mike brings Nick's body home to America, sadly fulfilling his promise from the night of the wedding. The film ends on the morning of Nick's funeral at the Byzantine Catholic parish. Singing somberly "Vichnaya Pamyat" or "Memory Eternal," the remaining friends leave the church, and the film ends with the group having a mournful breakfast together while quietly singing God Bless America.� Back to the wedding, I think it was an Orthodox service based on the fact that the choir is chanting �Bog� and Slava Tiebe Gospodi thus in the Russian pronunciation of Church Slavonic. Also I believe that after the Rusyns joined the Russian Orthodox Church, Russian priests introduced Russian recentions of Church Slavonic. Not to mention that whole Russian Carpathian movement and ideology. This is reflected in the Russian songs at the wedding in addition to Rusyn dancing and customs. I believe these Russian examples are not evident in the Byzantine Catholic Church which preserved their own traditions to a larger degree in the time period of the wedding (1960�s). Another example is the use of the white rusnyk down the centre aisle of the Church. This is a Russian custom, although spread to Eastern Ukraine. In Western Ukraine, we use a small embroidered rusnyk. The only thing I saw out of order from an typical Slavic Orthodox wedding was the beginning of the betrothal service at the front of the church instead of in the Ambo. Is this an OCA custom? Certainly Meyendorf doesn't mention this anomaly in his book on Marriage. However, this is just speculations and I may be totally wrong.
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I noticed from the Widepdia article that the Orthodox priest is played by Fr. Stephen Kopestonsky. This implies that he is a real priest. I thought from the movie he did appear to be a very seasoned Orthodox priest. I am not sure if he is still alive, but from the following quote by Metr. Theodosius of the OCA, Fr. Stephen must be a prominent clergyman because he went to Moscow with the Metr. to receive the Tomos of autocephaly in 1972. I flew back to Alaska after Pascha, on Saint Thomas Sunday. Two weeks later, on May 15, I was back in New York to lead the official delegation that would receive the Tomos in Moscow. The delegation included Fathers Daniel Hubiak, John Skvir, John Nehrebecki, and John Turkevich (son of the late Metropolitan Leonty); Stephen Kopestonsky, Managing Editor of The Orthodox Church; and Constantine Kallaur of the Department of External Affairs. The American Ambassador, Jacob Beame, and an undersecretary were also present at the presentation. The official reception took place at the Patriarch residence. After the proclamation was read by Metropolitan Pimen, and after a response from me, we all entered the chapel and celebrated a Service of Thanksgiving before the Vladimir icon of the Mother of God, to whom the chapel is dedicated. http://www.holy-trinity.org/modern/theodosius.htmlThere is also a Fr. T. Stephen Kopestonsky (Aug. 1986-May 2004) of St. Nicolas Orthodox Church, OCA http://www.somethingrussian.com/aboutus.htmlAnd another OCA man with the same name who was a choir director at Holy Trinity Orthodox Church (OCA). In addition, Holy Trinity Church has also been the recipient of the talents of many lay leaders and choir directors over the years. Of special distinction is Mr. Stephen Kopestonsky of Philadelphia, who was a pioneer in the adaptation of traditional Slavonic liturgical music into the English language http://htoca.org/news_events.htm
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The Blessing of the Lord!
Dear Aleksandr,
Thanks for the compliment. You'll be glad to know that I follow those guide-lines myself. In particular, I have never in my life purported to marry a Christian to a non-Christian.
Father T. Stephen Kopestonsky is an Orthodox priest, certainly. I don't know whether he is still on this earth - he would be about 70 years of age. The only slightly jarring note about that wedding is that it shows him consoling the mother of the groom in Russian, which is out of character for Father Stephen, and which would probably have been lost on a Lemko mother in Clevelnd. But such is life a la Hollywood.
Didn't remember that he was part of the delegation that went to Moscow to receive the Tomos of autocephaly, but that's not surprising.
Fr. Serge
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Is this movie being recommended as a good film to watch? Sounds interesting, and my interest to see it sis growing, though I did find that the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops rated this movie to be morally offensive (and I am not sure if I trust this source on the arts but I like to use it to avoid things that seem dangerous in some lement).
Are you guys discussing it primarily because of the wedding scene though not necessarily endorsing it, or would you say it is a worthy watch. I am not easily offended and will watch some 'R' movies if they have enough content to be a good experience, but lately I find that more and more it may be better for me to just avoid anything questionable, and really to not be too interested in the arts anyway. Here was the full review.
"Three small-town steel-workers (Robert De Niro, Christopher Walken and John Savage) have their mettle tested by the horrors of Vietnam in director Michael Cimino's harsh evocation of the effects of war on friendship and spirit. Somewhat racist and chauvinistic treatment and the film's brutal and intense moments of violence play on gut emotions overriding any serious intent to explore the painful tragedy of Vietnam. O (R) 1978"
The O means morally offensive.
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