www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings Apocryphal Writings Inconsistency

Ummmm... no.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/septuagint.html

Yep thats why Martin Luther removed them from the bible 500 years ago - they contradicted his new religion.

In spite of the implicit notion of Catholic or Eastern Christian conspiracy here, I will speak up and say NO we are not worried about the validity of your arguments.

If you wish to debate these things, you might do better over at http://forums.catholic.com.

Go to the Eastern Christian Forum there if you want to raise these questions. Trust me, there are about 6 fellas who will be happy to share their thinking on this matter with you there.

Joel:

I suggest you read the "sticky" thread entitled "How we got the Bible." There is a wealth of information that is the truth there.

The Scripture comes from the Church and is at the heart of the Church but it IS NOT over the Church or a vehicle used to judge the Church. The Church is the only legitimate interpreter about the Scripture's meaning, how it was assembled--the bishops of the Church decided this under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and how it is to be understood. There are no discrepancies in Scripture, especially when it is rightly understood and read. But it takes formation in the Church to rightly understand and read the Scripture.

The question you must answer if you wish to justify your obviously Protestant approach to the Scripture is this: Is Jesus Christ a liar?

Jesus Christ promised His Church that He would be with it to the end of the age. It isn't the end of the age yet. So did He lie? If He didn't, where in the Church's history do you find anything but condemnation of your positions?

In Christ,

BOB

"I just wonder if you are scared that the discrepancies are valid and that it might cause others in the Eastern Church Tradition to question church's position?"

The arguments that you have been making are not very strong. Similar arguments of chronology can be used to dismiss Judges, or to dismiss Matthew and Luke if one were to declare that since the chronologies in those books are not accurate by our modern standards they are false books. Since we may be from a similar backgrounds, I was a Protestant influenced by Sola Scriptura, I have a suggestion for you.

Get a copy of scripture which doesn't have the verse separators in the text, there are several versions of the KJV (something like "Bible as Literature"), and read the gospels in their entirety and listen. Listen as if the evangelists were speaking before you. Then do this for the epistles, read the letters in their entirety. Then when you have done that, read what you call the apocryphal books in the same fashion with one question in mind: what can this teach me about Christ and the people he encountered?

When you have done this, I would be happy to listen to what you have learned.

Terry

his topic is interesting, but I feel as though I must share a bit of information about the history of these books

1). These books were the books used in Synagogues by the Jews at the time of Christ. It was not until the Jewish Council of Jamnia (AD 90) that the Jewish leaders decided that these books were not considered part of the canon. The canonicity of these books was not a question for the Christians.

2). Martin Luther did in fact attempt to remove these books, but it is also important to note that he wanted to remove several books from the Old Testament (Revelation, Hebrews, and James off the top of my head) because he found things that were not in keeping with his theological presuppositions.

3). If it is Scripture that validates Scripture, then I think we can agree that there books not in the Protestant Bible that should be like Enoch because it is explicitally quoted in the New Testament.

The ultimate underlying question on Scripture being asked is how it relates to the Church. Here's a briew exposition on this topic from an Orthodox Christian. The Scriptures are part of the Traditions that were handed down by the Apostles. The Church, not the Scriptures, is the pillar and bulwark of the Truth. The Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit like at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), has been led into all Truth and preserved unconquered by the gates of Hell. It is this Church that has given us the Scriptures, thus it is this Church that alone tells us what is and what isn't Scripture since, after all, no scripture if for one's own interpretation