www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall No Fault Divorce Poll

Indeed, my problem is inculturation. I'm not used to ghettos and slums - we don't have them in Nothern part of Eastern Europe. That's why I didn't link divorce to poverty. I have to learn more about the wealthiest country in the world.

I believe that there are also historical studies suggesting that the increase in divorce rate is correlated with the increase in life span. Back when life expectancy was 45, you only had to live with a person for so long. And given the high death rate for women in labor, it was not uncommon for a man to get married 2 or 3 times to a very young wife until he finally passed on himself.

Joe

The only solution which comes to my mind is to continue with the present medical system and to increase the price of medical insurance in the US therefore making it too unbearable to even bigger part of the population. It will lead to the natural decrease of divorce rate. However ungodly and inhuman it might sound.

Ihar, you really should smile or wink or something when you say that or we will begin to seriously worry about you

"I believe that there are also historical studies suggesting that the increase in divorce rate is correlated with the increase in life span."

I would not put much value in those studies correlating increased divorce with increased life span. With that death rate you mentioned in addition to the number of children that did not live past their infancy, that correlation seems to be a stretch if it is implied that marriage is a factor in an early death. (But my opinion there is rooted in the problems I have with much of what is now called sociology.)

I was just suggesting it as a possibility. I certainly don't think that one would find some kind of iron law of social behavior.

I prefer people to guess. They might get a wrong message and start praying for me.

It is a fair statement as a possibility. Maybe I overreact when I hear statistics being used; I've had a run in with too many psychology and sociology students whose confused grasp of epistemology led them to awkward conclusions and theories.

I've been thinking about the problems of "social sciences" for 35+ years now, starting with my major, economics, and have the following major criticisms of all of them:

a) unlike the hard sciences, the social sciences can never replicate their experiments;

b) unlike the hard sciences, when the social sciences get something wrong, people get very hurt, often for good;

c) unlike the hard sciences, politicians think they understand the social sciences, and tend to compound the problems. (Watch CSPAN hearings, and just listen to all the pols citing "the science tells us....")

Would any physical, chemical or biological "theory" with an error term of +/- 2.5% even get to peer review? And yet our society frequently imposes programs based on "social science" with even flakier statistics.

I don't think "social sciences" even pass the "smell test" of being scientific. What they do achieve, is the soporification of the populace!

If you're still reading this, please excuse the rant!

Michael

Michael, you make very good points. I wish I could get some of my colleagues to understand. Unfortunately, I've had colleagues who've argued that philosophy and religion are outmoded and need to be replaced by the social sciences.

Joe

As someone with degrees in both Sociology and Computer Science, I do think social science findings are too often used to justify ideology. Sometimes things are presented as scientific facts when they are simply observations. But I do hold that people are much more complicated and harder to fathom than material items or processes. Since I also work in education - more degrees in Library Science and Music - I am also aware that education is awash in unproven speculation. Some days I wish I had gone into another field, that is, until I get the 5-year-old's smile along with a hug. That makes me think all the BS is ultimately worth it.

Their social science could not be social science as they see it if it responded to the questions of philosophy or if it considered an ounce of metaphysical understanding. A psychologist would be in a difficult situation if he were to believe that reason was, at least in part, metaphysical. It would be better to reduce a person's will and actions to behaviorism, thereby mitigating the possibility of sin and a free will. For those who explain all aspects to life with such ideas of their own construction, philosophy is arrogant and religion, especially Christianity, leads people to destructively false beliefs and hopes.

Terry

I have had a related discussion - related in terms of philosophy - with a priest friend of many years. He maintains that the seminary gave him an excellent education in philosophy. The downside is that it didn't prepare him to deal with people in an age that doesn't seem to accept philosophical reasoning as valid.

I think society may be experiencing something of a sea-change now. Fr. Groeschel, on his show and in his book, The Virtue-Driven Life, has mentioned how in psychology there is the beginnings of a movement (contributions from Jews and Christians) to return to a view of the "virtuous man" as a positive model, rather than to continually look at "diseases" without any reference to a "norm", especially in the realm of counseling.

Some of these experts' books have been published by the American Psychological Association, and they are being discussed in the usual academic and professional circles. Two Catholic therapists participating in this movement, Suzanne Baars (TX) and Richard Fitzgibbons (Phila), both make strong arguments for helping their clients to learn to forgive.

First Things doesn't seem to be afraid of engaging in philosophical discussions, though usually regarding the common good and natural law, since they are all about the "public square".

Or was your priest friend referring more to the big questions, such as the existence of God, purpose of life, etc.?

Big and bigger questions. I understand what he meant. Philosophy is often viewed as the art of stacking and arranging words together, but having little or no relation to reality. That's not exactly a good evangelization tool anymore.