www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West one catholic and Apostolic Ukrainian Orthodox Church

I thought that this news story was very interesting. Clearly president of Yuschenko of Ukraine is at the forefront of closing a millennium old schism between Catholics and Orthodox. In keeping with most Ukrainian Orthodox and Greek-Catholics view on the matter, he stated that the church would be a catholic (note the small 'c') and Apostolic Orthodox (note large 'O') church. The goal here is of course to mend the millennium old schism between the different branches (or lungs) of the church.

As we have heard from Father Al. in another post, the ROC with it's recently merged ROCOR clearly have other plans - which is of course to detroy the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (Transcarpathia included) and ensure that the millennium old schism remains between Christians.

The outcome of the September 2007 elections in Ukraine will either pave the way for a new unified Christian era or 'same ol same ol Canonical Orthodox rethoric from the Moscow Patriarch.

I.F.

Here is the news story:

President Yushchenko Convinced that Orthodox Will Make Peace
27.08.2007, [15:21] // UOC-KP //

Novovolynsk � President Victor Yushchenko, speaking at a ceremonial gathering on 26 August 2007 honoring Miner�s Day in the mining town of Novovolynsk, Volynsky Oblast, stated that the problem of division between eastern and western Ukraine is falsely ascribed to Ukraine society. At the people�s level, on the societal level, this conflict doesn�t exist, according to Yushchenko; it is invented by some unfortunate politicians. Ukrinform carried the story.

�The view that ours is a divided nation, that some kind of curse weighs upon it, is far from the truth,� asserted the President. �Whatever language our citizens are speaking, they feel themselves more and more to be Ukrainian, with one nation, one state, where they live and serve.�

With every passing year, Ukrainian society comes closer to creating one catholic and apostolic Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Of course there are some delicate issues. But, according to the President, with time the Ukrainian Orthodox confessions will come to an understanding and make peace. In other words, unity among the Orthodox is one of the foundations for a united Ukrainian nation.

Yeah my priest said to me that it is the hope of Patriach Lubomyr that the UGCC will be united into one Ukrainian Church which is both Catholic and Orthodox - I think it is very exciting but while the KP and UAOC people might be in (keep in mind that president Yuschenko is KP and Patriarch Filaret is his personal confessor) I bet the MP people, along with Rome due to pressure from Moscow not to mention theological reasons, will refuse to have anything to do with it .

I think you are reading too much into the above statement. What the president wants is one united Ukrainian Orthodox Church. As you said catholic is with a smal "c".
As far as I know only the Ukrainian Catholics are pushing for a united "Ukrainian" church that is in union with Rome and the Orthodox communion. We Orthodox know that is not possible. Union have to be with the whole Catholic Church and the whole Orthodox Church not just parts of it. Even Filaret himself has disavowed any connection with such a scheme.
We all know from other articles that both the Communists and the MP are not supporting the President and the Orange Revolution. I think we all have to pray for the upcoming elections on September 30th.

Lets pray for One Ukrainian Apostolic Church. We should go back to before 1596 and take the next step and establish a patriarchate. This might casue a schism in the UGCC becasue of Basillian politics, but I believe most poeple would go for this.

Perhaps - Kyivan Church - which might include former territories of the Kyivan Metropolia before 1596 and make it something bigger than just a particular Ukrainian project - something to be a real alternative to the "Third Rome".

For a long time the Metropolitans of Kyiv resided in Navahradak and Vilna and where often not of the Ukrainian origin (like Michal Rohoza - born in Minsk, or Silvestr Kosaw - Kosiv in ukr. - native of Mahilou in Belarus)

Wow, just what we need, another vagante set of bishops. There already exists one and only one canonical Orthodox Church there, the UOC-MP, and one and only one canonical Eastern Catholic Church, the UGCC. Anything else would be nothing more than vagante bishop-wannabes. And as Orest has already kindly pointed out, if there someday is, Dai Bozhe, reunification between the East and the West, it will be worldwide, not solely in the Ukraine, which would only pander to the political aims of certain individuals.

Alexandr

I know, Alexander, you think in rather universal, "vselenskije" terms.
What I was saying concerns rather parochial affairs of the former Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania-Rus (Belarus, Ukraine, Baltic state of Lithuania, Southern Latvia - Latgalia - and certain parts of that medieval state currently incorporated into the Russian state - Smolensk and Bryansk regions).

I am not from Ukraine, so I don't know much about your problems there in details. But, as orthodox christian I think that it is impossible to have one church that is Orthodox and in the same time in communion with roman church. That is ecclesiological nonsense. Orthodox church in Ukraine can only be in communion with the other Orthodox churhes, with churches that profess orthodox faith.

If the day comes when the UOC-MP, the UOC-KP and the UAOC reunite to form one Orthodox Church presumanbly in communion with Moscow and / or Constantinople, will Patriarch Lubomyr and the UGCC choose to unite with it even at the expense of losing its communion with Rome, or will it remain steadfastly separate in order to maintain its Roman connection?

Patriarch Lubomyr has made it clear that he sees no need for the Moscow Patriarch in Ukraine. The Ukrainian Orthodox Patriarch KP has echoed Patriarch Lubomyr's comments.

The Ruthenians of Ukraine (Ukrainians) are 'evolving' away from three centuries of Muscovite domination. The Ukrainian president is calling for the unification of the Ukrainian churches into one Orthodox Church which is in communion with both Rome and Constantinople - as was the case on the day that Grand Prince Volodymyr baptised Rus-Ukraine (988). Since there was no Muscovy at the time, or an Imperial Muscovy (Russia which did not come into existance many centuries later), there is no need for unification with the Moscow Patriarch.

In fact, Askold Lozynskyj (President of the Ukrainian World Council) is pushing for the establishment of Ukrainian Orthodox and Ukrainian and Russian Greek-Catholic parishes in the Russian Federation. There are many who would like to join but are being impeded by the Russian Orthodox Patriarch.

I'm glad to hear that there are many Russian Orthodox Church members here in the United States who do not want to part of the new merged ROC. Perhaps they can join the Ukrainian Orthodox Church KP.

I.F.

Before the Second World War, roman catholic bishop in Kotor (Montenegro) brought greek catholic priest in his diocese. His intention was proselitism. The orthodox people expelled him and his plans failed.
Church can not be ORTHODOX and roman catholic at the same time. The same thing happened when Melkites wanted reunification with Antiochian patriarchate. Their proposal was rejected. No matter that they were One Holy Orthodox Church once. They are not now. You can have the same liturgy, wear the same vestments, but for us you are not orthodox.

Krsto,

If + 40,000,000 Ukrainian Christians decide that their new amalgamated Orthodox church is in communion with both Rome and Constinople as it was in 988, the year Volodymyr baptized Rus-Ukraine, then do you really think that they will care less with what the +40,000 Orthodox from Montenegro will think ? The Ukrainians do not want to be ROMAN Catholic as you state, but an Orthodox Church which is part of an Apostolic catholic (small 'c') global Christian community (pre-scism era). It seems to me that the Ukrainians are defining a modern united Apostolic Christianity and you may find one day that President Yushchenko made a saint for his efforts.

I.F.

Alexandr,

Thanks for your comments.

I.F.

Isn't history riddled with certain bishops declaring themselves autonomous and Patriarchs, only later to be recognized as such hundreds of years later. The Patriarchate of Serbia is the first to come to my mind.

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