www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Smithtown Church & Fr. Daniel Bitsko

John K:

<I'll bet Smithtown had to lay out $$$ for the new pew books though! And probably enough for 300 people? Ugh! [/quote]

Yes, Fr. Untereiner purchased new pew books, but there are not enough to go around. Probably to fulfill one of the predictions in one of his "Joyful Messages," where he states that the new pew books had arrived, and "those that want to take part in the Liturgy will use them, and those who don't care won't." He also had to lay out money for new vestments, because he claims we didn't have the proper vestments. Also money was spent to refurbish and regild the Gospel book,to purchase artifacts for the altar that he determined we needed, and to add candles in front of all the icons. Perhaps he felt this would enable us to see a little better in church, since he keeps the church mostly unlit. Oh, and of course there were the expenditures necessitated to make sure our parish "was in compliance." Expenditures for private investigators, "forensic" investigators, etc. Then he was forced to rent dumpsters to fill with all manner of things associated with the now defunct bazaar - things like cash registers, a computer, cooking utensils, barbeques, cutlery, dishes. Then, or course, there are the expenditures necessary for his senseless vendetta against a few stray cats - such as tearing down shelters, hiring investigators to follow people suspected of feeding the cats, uprooting all the bushes around the rectory where the cats might hide. So far, he hasn't carried out his threat to erect a fence, at the parish's expense, to keep out the cats. Maybe there isn't enouugh money left for this. So sad that he seems to be running out of money, and is now forced to limit the A.C. in the summer, and heat in the winter.

Meg:
And where is the "oversight" in all of this unnecessary spending? Sounds like a lot of double-speak re. accountability on the part of Bishop Pataki. I would like to see the books!!

Did you know that Fr. U. bounced a group of Dominican nuns out of St. Andrew's Rectory that they were renting in Westbury in order that he could live there? (Shades of Bishop Murphy of Rockville Centre who removed the nuns out so that he could put in his wine cooling refrigerator and dining room!) Why he didn't take up residence at the Jesuit Retreat House on the fashionable North Shore if he didn't want to live too close to us, at the Rectory in Smithtown.

The Arrogance of Power!

I now livr in Louisianna but was aperishoner of Fr. Dans for many years and am sorry to hear of the school being sht down as my wife andi were the first principals of it and we were presidents of the mens and ladies club. What a terrible thing to happen to such great people and a wonderful church wher God was worshipped and adored

Meg:

Wouldn't it free all of this community by walking away from this situation? All the guy has is money and "stuff" that is not of the essence of your faith, nor is it part of your community. Your community is the group of people who have shared their lives together. So get the community together, turn your back on this sad history, and move on.

I learned when I was in Workers' Comp for three years and knew that I would never go back to the job that I had been injured on, that there are only two things in life that NO ONE can take from you unless you let them: your faith in Christ and your good name. You have to let others take them from you. Otherwise, everything in life can be replaced.

Christ tells us that he who loves father, mother, son or daughter more than Him is not worthy of Him. I would like to add that he who gets wrapped up in too much concern for "history and stuff" is not worthy of Him either. Your faith is not in His Grace or his minions. It is in Christ. You have the chance to get free and begin again. Take it.

In Christ,

BOB

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Bob.
As heartbreaking as it is, I would walk out and not go back. If the building was empty Harry would be out of a job and an income pretty quickly. Why stay and allow them to continue the torture? You can see whats coming. This isn't the first parish to be destroyed by the bishop and his spineless, powerless lackies. It won't be the last. Because of years of ineptitude, this church is dying. The clergy knows it. The Titanic reference didn't originate from the pews.

I believe the time has come to make the choice we all knew we would eventually have to make. Roman Catholicism or Orthodoxy. Andrew Pataki isn't much different than John Ireland. Its time for people of Faith to step out and leave this cruel and unjust insanity behind them.

I'm looking, and I know many others who are as well. Who would have thought 50 years ago that this is where we would be today?

Just my sorrowful two cents.
Sam

Just found this on the newsday message board. Here are the open arms of our Mother Church, waiting to welcome you home.

Father Demetrios Kehagias
Little Neck, NY Reply �
|Flag |#15 8 hrs ago
As priest of Assumption Church in Port Jefferson,New York I was appalled when one of my parishioners showed me the article about the cancellation of the Byzantine festival. I know that it is an event many of my parishioners enjoyed attending.
We extend to you open arms and welcome you to join us in continuing worshiping the Lord in the true Orthodox tradition rather than give in to the attempts of trying shut down this wonderful parish in Smithtown.

I am tearful as I read this. I agree with you Sam, and the others who advised us to just walk away. I try to tell this to my fellow parishioners, but many of them are of the opinion that if we just stick together, and stick it out, the church will not close. They feel leaving is giving in to the Bishop. I feel leaving, en masse, is putting en end to his cash cow. He must be already feeling the pinch, because all of the young people have left so they could continue their children's religious education, and the few older parishioners remaining cannot possibly sustain the church. Add to this the fact that the real estate bubble has burst, and home buying, and building, is at a standstill. Our Lord works in strange ways, doesn't He? I am of the mind to turn this all over to Him, trusting that He will see to it that justice is done.

I cannot tell you how touched I am to read the welcome from Father Demetrious, and how grateful I am to you for posting it.

Yours in Christ,
Meg

Sam,

I am very sorry to hear that it has come to this.

But I will say that not all Eastern Catholic bishops behave in this manner, so the choice is not perhaps as drastic as you make it out to be, despite the drastic circumstances you now face. In fact, in recent memory, NO other EC Bishops that I am aware of do so (in North America at least - I cannot speak about other parts of the world). For instance, I hear that St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church is just a wonderful parish with a very dynamic pastor.

In ICXC,

Gordo

Unfortunately, no he won't. That's the problem, they do the bishops bidding, bring things to ruin...then move on to another parish...has George Malitz been disciplined for his abhorrent behavior in CT??? I don't think so he still has a pretty cushy parish...did Fr. Danilak (God save his soul) fall to ruins, even though he had been accused of molesting approximately 100 children (I have been told, admitted it on his death bed)...no...Fr. Hospodar...has he ever paid the price for, allegedly, punching his secretary...not that I can think of...he's still the chancellor and calling alot of the shots...Just these three priests I've mentioned, I don't know Fr. Harry so I can not comment on him...seem to have a common thread...His Grace Andrew...Anyone familiar with the OCA scandals knows that not only the people speak out, but priests who are not afraid to put their names out there doing so...that's what the BCC really needs if this is going to end...not cowards...

My one suggestion...

Do not walk away 1 by 1...find a jurisdiction that will take you and all leave en masse...

Talk to Father Demetrios Kehagias in Little Neck...it is possible that your community can stay together and utilize his parish facilities and have him serve you...it is only by doing that that you will find out who really means it and who just wants to complain...

To me there is nothing stronger than the community standing up and not taking the abhorent behavior...

Chris

PS...I am a strong believer in bishops...but evil is evil...

What a nice message from the Church of the Assumption's Fr. Kehagias. Since I have been thinking about this church and know several parishioners, I shall make it a point to speak with him at some point when I get there. Thank you, Sam, for the post.

Let us go in the Peace of the Lord....

Chris:


EXACTLY!!!!!!!

BOB

Those who say walk away and take away the financial support for the parish are not getting the point.

The objective of the Bishop through his man is to get you to walk away so he can then say there's no one left in the parish so I am closing it down.

Unfortunately, we are real estate rich and that's what Passaic is after. Early on it was announced that the parish cemetery is up for sale (asking $2 million), the new parking lot and adjacent house is up for sale, The rectory probably will be condemmed so it can be torn down. There is enough property to build a substantial number of residences/condos located three blocks from the Long Island Railroad station. The prize is the real estate value.

Stick around. If the cemetery is sold, they can't take the money and run like they were accustomed to. We'll be very solvent if they do.

Remember when Fr Harry said he was sending 8% of every withdrawal he makes to the Bishop because it wasn't paid when the money was collected. That's pure bunk but it sure will endear him to Pataki.

If some wasn't sent then he should determine what that amounted to and take the 8% now. His forensic accountants and investigators should be able to do that. Pataki isn't stupid either. He had controls over parish income. Was he asleep all these years while some of the 8% wasn't being paid?

Since Fr Harry was sent to do us in, Rome has spoken in very strong language against the practice of American Bishops of closing churches and taking the money to the Chancery.

A letter was addressed to the American Bishops, including Passaic. Canon Law and Rome now say the assets have to stay with the parish and if that's closed for good reason (which they don't have) the money goes to the parishes that take in the old parisioners. It's more complex than that but it's clear they can't take the money and run. If you abandon your parish now you will be making it easier for them.

Pray for a good bishop to replace the terrible one we now have. Ask for Divine intervention. Pray for Fr. Dan who is in exile from his beloved church. He would not encourage you to quit. Put up with the inferior, but perfectly valid, Liturgy until they surrender and give us a caring parish priest like the one we had.

Fr Harry seems to fire the cantor every two weeks and that is reflected in the fact no one can sing with them. They are not supposed to sing for us but rather lead us in the singing. It would be nice to tone down their microphones and get them to use the traditional melodies for the prayers that we are all used to.
Harry is not stupid.

Don't play his game. Stick it out and we will prevail. Remember what we had under Fr. Dan and strive to get it back. Don't minimize the power of prayer. Why not say a decade of the rosary after Liturgy each Sunday for that purpose. Who can object to that?

Not that I have a stake in this, but does anyone have a clue what the money is to be used for? I know of some additional property in the Passaic eparchy that has been sold in 2006 and netted about $500,000.00 +/-. No capitol improvements have been made to the parishes in question that can be seen by a casual observer, St. Georges in Linden NJ and St. Thomas's in Rahway NJ. This whole episode seems to have a strange smell attached to it.

Problem is, Potsy, that Rome is far away and your bishop legally owns your property under American civil law. Rome could rein him in, but he obviously has friends in high places or he wouldn't be an active bishop at the age of 80. In the meantime, the money can simply disappear. Who will take the bishop to task and in what forum will you achieve justice? Some years ago my parish received three bequests to build a new building. In the three months that the money sat in the "diocesan bank" the account went from $1.5+ million to $900 thusand. And those of us, myslef included, who sat on the parish council were told that we didn't have the right figures, even though the previous pastor had provided us with a written accounting. So we were all made out to be one of two things--either mistaken or liars, take your pick. When we pushed it, we were told that any bequest or any other money that comes into any institution of the diocese is the bishop's personal property and he can tell us how much there really is. No mistaking that iron hand and no velvet glove either.

I have two children who are accountants, one a CPA. There are more ways to make money disappear through accounting than the untrained person can count. In the small businesses I've worked in people have made fortunes and kept them off book and off the tax collector's radar. What makes you think that someone will take the cases of these parishes and take the time and spend the money to try to track it all down?

Your cemetery may be a difficult thing to dispose of, BUT the Catholic Church DOES NOT give a person a piece of real estate in which to bury his family. It sells him THE RIGHT to be buried there IF one is disposed according to Church law and doctrine. I've seen cemeteries sold and the occupants moved by the Church and no one can fight it because the "deed" one receives says so in the fine print. But the average person--probably 99.99%--does not know this fine point of how cemetery ownership differs between a Catholic cemetery and a non-Catholic cemetery in this country. On the other hand, I've seen a place where a small cemetery was surrounded by a high fence, then had fast-gowing shrubs planted around it, and finally had a development built around it. Now there is no access for families to visit and the little obstacle to the property's development was quickly overcome.

I truly feel badly for the parishioners of this and other parishes that have become so valuable that bishops place the money before the people. But the hard fact is that you are in the middle of this, that there is little sign that this bishop will disappear or be replaced before your property is dissolved, and--most importantly--the SPIRITUAL DAMAGE it seems to be doing to people. I deal every day with people who have left the Church--sometimes generations ago--for similar reasons or other reasons. The problem is that they have been hurt badly but have left Christ in the process and endangered their immortal souls. That's the most important thing to be considered. People need the grace and the life of Faith that the Church has to offer. But they can be sidetracked by the personalities involved in this type of situation. Yesterday I lead a burial service for a family whose last contact with any church was when the woman who died was married in 1976. There were children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren who had no clue waht I was talking about when I mentioned God or read some Scripture passages or tried to give them some comfort in a pain tht resembled that described by St. Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4: "others who have not hope."

My whole contribution here is to try to help people avoid that setting.

In Christ,

BOB