www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Smithtown Church & Fr. Daniel Bitsko

This all sounds all well and good. However, the way Fr. Untereiner appears to be spending the money that is coming in on unnecessary things...which appear to be totally cosmetic in order to effectuate the eradication of Fr. Dan's imprint (and why aren't these expenditures being investigated?), the parish will show a real deficit shortly, if not already, and will not be solvent. The bishop expects a certain tithe from the parish and when it cannot be met...there goes the real estate to pay the bill. Let's face it, the congregation is down numerically, ergo financially, and will not go back to the days of Fr. Dan. Those parishioners who were "dismissed" probably will not come back...Once burned, twice shy! The abandoned buildings (the rectory, Catechetical Center, nursery) will have to be sold because they will be costly "white elephants" to maintain--insurance, the heat alone during the winter (unless all utilities: water, electric, fuel have been terminated).

Re. your comments about the letter to all of ths American bishops about assets, this will probably be challenged by the eparchy insofar as the bishop will claim massive arrears on the part of the parish in order to justify taking the proceeds from a sale. As a result, our Church of the Resurrection parish will most likely never see a penny.

Unless Bishop Pataki gets his marching orders soon, the picture is bleak because his appointee keeps on marching against us. Even our beautiful Divine Liturgy is not the same, thanks to Fr. Untereiner. Yes, prayer is needed.

You were posting as I was writing... you spelled it out so clearly and correctly. Thank you.

Gordo,
Thank you, kind sir, for your words of encouragement.
I have been around too long and I have seen far too much of the workings of this church. Frankly I am also tired of being seen as a second class(aka eastern)Catholic.
We post here about going to Rome for help, etc. We need to wake up and smell the coffee. Rome is courting the Orthodox Church in Europe and we are clearly in their way. Rome has never taken us seriously, such small numbers as we are. Rome will not force +P to retire. The longer he stays the more he destroys this little sui uris church in the way. He is a Roman Catholic inside and out, using Eastern Canon Law when it suits him. The Metropolitan is Roman Catholic. One doesn't see much muscle coming from that area in regards to the +problem of Passaic, growth, education, evangelization, etc.
Watching parish after parish being supressed with such cold hearted cruelty makes my stomach turn. We in other parishes watch as our brothers and sisters get kicked into the streets with no pastoral guidance. We know they will be coming for us soon. How they manage to sleep at night is a mystery to me.

There are no Melkite, etc churches anywhere near me. I cannot join the RC community. After decades of witnessing their total disregard for anything other than their own tradition, I won't go there. I love the East. I am Eastern. I have been exploring Orthodoxy, but I am not a young person. I shouldn't have to be doing this after years of commitment to my parish. I shouldn't have to renounce the Faith of my ancestors, but I can see whats coming. There are small pockets of real growth, but overall this particular Ruthenian hybrid is dying out. The bishop must believe this himself. In that old Titanic analogy, what he is doing is the equivalent of throwing the women and children out of the lifeboats to save himself. He is selling off property to ensure what priests he has left will get a paycheck until the end.

I don't know. I pray about it, but the more I pray the less I want to admit what I am seeing in organized religion today.

As for Smithtown, I believe the handwriting is on the wall. You can hold out and fight to the end, and God bless you I hope this leadership turns over like yesterday, but I am betting the bishop's method of killing off communities will be effective here.

Sam

Spinrose, you ask why the expenditures aren't being investigated? As you know, we haven't received a financial report in a long time. I understand there was one when my husband and I were out sick, but we never saw it. However, the amount taken in the Sunday collection is no longer posted in the church bulletin. This morning, a parish member asked our one "lay representative" what the weeekly donations are from the Sunday collection, and she was told it was none of her business! She stood her ground and said that it was her business, that she was a parishioner, and she wanted to know. She was told by the lay representative that the matter would be looked into. This is how it goes at Church of the Resurrection now, as you well know. There is no oversight as to how Fr. Harry spends our money, and no accountability. The lay representative is merely a rubber stamp, and has no input at all. A very sorry state of affairs, and I sometimes wonder if some law is being broken here. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try and scrape up some money and get a legal opinion on this.
After all, the parishioners donated generously over the years, and worked hard to purchase all the property the church now owns. Now, our hard-earned money is being spent recklessly and we have nothing to say about it, and from the looks of things, it soon will be sold out from under us.

Meg,
Unfortunately once you donate money to a church or any other organization it is no longer yours. What they do with it is sort of their business. Accountability would be nice. A financial statement would be nice, but in reality a donation is a donation. If you give a car to your cousin you can't tell him where to drive it. If you keep giving money to this parish Harry will keep spending it.
How to have better control of your money? Keep it in your own wallet! Keep it!
I sincerely feel for you people. Your pain bleeds through to this thread. This scandalous behavior on the part of our clergy and bishop is affecting all of our spirits.
We need to pray for God's help.
Sam

Meg,
Unfortunately once you donate money to a church or any other organization it is no longer yours. What they do with it is sort of their business. Accountability would be nice. A financial statement would be nice, but in reality a donation is a donation. If you give a car to your cousin you can't tell him where to drive it. If you keep giving money to this parish Harry will keep spending it.
How to have better control of your money? Keep it in your own wallet! Keep it!

Ah Sam, that is exactly what my husband keeps telling me. And like you, we know not where to turn. For almost 40 years, we have been (we thought) Byzantine Catholics. We too love the Eastern Church, and the beautiful Liturgy. We are exploring all our options. There is a Ukrainian Catholic Church within driving distance, and several Orthodox churches. But, we are "gun-shy." We sit and wonder if it would be better not to be part of any organized religion ever again. Our faith in Our Lord, and His teachings, however, has not wavered. We also are getting older, and are facing our own mortality. We have tried our best to live up to Our Lord's teachings, trusting that He will remember this when our days on this earth are over. I pray every night for God to lead us to make the right decision. Thank you for your kind words of sympathy. They help.

Meg,

I have struggled with this story. It has truly touched me deeply, and I have felt a variety of emotions, even being enraged at the injustice being committed here against my brothers and sisters in the Greek-Catholic faith. I am sure that I am not alone in this.

In my repentance for some of these passions, however, I was reminded in confession on Saturday of the teaching of Jesus to pray for those who persecute us. Even though I am not the direct recipient of the injustice you are currently experiencing, my heart truly aches for you and your once vibrant parish - and for the whole Church.

It also reminds me of an experience I had some time ago that I would like to share, for what it is worth.

Many years ago, as a Latin, I was deeply scandalized by the misbehavior of a priest and a number of well known Catholic laymen. For a while, I felt as if I might leave the Church altogether. I recall praying, "Maybe it should be just you and me, Lord? Forget Your priests and Your Church. I just want to have my relationship with You." It was at that moment that I was granted an insight that has stayed with me through that time and other trying times:

My relationship with Christ is not only inseperable from the Church, my relationship with Christ is the Church.

Our Lord was betrayed by no less than one of His apostles - the one who broke bread with Him, and, ironicaly, held the purse of the community (from which he stole, as mentioned by the Gospels). We all know his dreadful end by his own hand and the quote from Jesus, "It would have been better for him if he had never even been born.". But somehow God was able to make, by the power of His mercy, the treachery of His apostle the source of redemptive mercy for the world. While it is difficult to see how He can accomplish this through the evil and scandal you are experiencing now, I know that it is possible to develop a supernatural perspective on events like these. I pray for you and your husband, and for all parishioners, that somehow through this, your love for Christ and the Church will be deepened and purified, as mine was. It is a difficult and painful path, but I believe I see and actually love the Mystery of the Church with her weeds and wheat much more because I had to suffer at the hands of some of her members.

God bless you,

Gordo

PS: I will also mention this - I brought all this to a good priest in confession, pouring out my heart at the sense of betrayal I had experienced. He looked at me with a knowing smile and said, "So what you are saying is that you have been wounded by the Church?" At that moment I knew I had just experienced a small taste of the redemptive suffering he as a simple parish priest must also experience on a daily basis at the hands of his brothers and sisters, not to mention the whole world which despises Christ and His Church - to make up for what is lacking in the suffering of Christ for the sake of His body. God can teach us many things through our suffering, even - and especially - at the hands of our brothers and sisters. Recall Joseph and his brothers (the patriarchs of the Twelve Tribes, precursors to the apostles), who threw him in the well out of jealousy and greed and sold him into slavery in Egypt. God's justice was fulfilled years later when his brothers bowed cowering before him as a ruler in Egypt. Their betrayal also made manifest His mercy when through it, Joseph was now in a position to help save his father, Israel, and his brothers and their families from the famine.

We never know how our crosses may end in our glory, or what value they may have for others.

I urge you to offer it in prayer for your fellow parishioners for all those who suffer scandal and pain, even loss of faith, because of the members of the Church. I also urge you to consider offering it for Bishop Andrew and your current pastor. Strange as it may seem, your suffering for love at their hands may yet be the cause of redemptive mercy for them and for others. By it, you may be more perfectly conformed to the likeness of Christ, who gave His life for the world on the Cross.

Again, I know this is all very difficult to see through the pain you are currently experiencing. Please know that there are many of us who are praying for you and your parish, that God would give you His wisdom and strength.

Sam,

Your pain and frustration are palpable, and I am sorry for it. You are correct - no Christian should ever have to face the choices you are facing...at any age.

It seems we are caught in a bit of a Catch-22. On the one hand, we wish to tell Rome to mind its own business and let us rule ourselves. On the other, we want Rome to intervene in cases like these. And who will represent our interests to the Pope and to the Eastern congregation? Who has access to them? The other bishops. Unless Rome hears complaints from the other bishops (or from many of the clergy), I do not anticipate any action being taken.

Have you consulted with a canon lawyer who is well versed in the Eastern Code? Is there anything that can be done in the ecclesiastical courts?

What you say about the Greek Catholics standing in the way of Rome and the Orthodox does not reflect anything that I have seen from Rome or the official dialogues. If anything, our existence seems to have been vigorously supported and defended.

Again, prayers, my brother, as you discern what you should do.

God bless,

Gordo

Meg, I know that there is no accountability and that the diminished income will hasten "the end" as Fr. U. spends what does come in. As far as the "Lay Representative" is concerned, she is a lovely lady whose priest-son is part of the eparchy and who has a parish upstate NY...so I believe she is stuck in a quandry as to how far she can push without creating problems elsehwhere.

I returned home from Liturgy on Saturday so down...our vibrant and warm Church is so dark and cold, cold, cold. Fr. U. is distant and cold...as you know, he doesn't even want know or call us by name us as we receive the Eucharist. As an additive, he has made participation next to difficult with his chosen "cantor/sacristan" conducting. However, my faith is my faith and will not be challenged by mere mortals....but l do know that I am now so "gun-shy" that I shall never be able to extend myself as openly and completely wherever I may wind up. I cannot and will not financially support Fr. U's drive to put us out of existence.

In Faith, I pray for us, I pray for Fr. Dan...and am grateful for the almost 40 good years that we knew.

Re. a donation being a donation. I have a slight problem with this. For example, I have "donated" to the Church a couple of the hand-painted icons "in memory of my deceased parents". I know of others who have done likewise...for a reason. The way I see it, they are not for sale! They are memorials...and the donor, if displaced by an indifferent and destructive regime, should be able to move the irons along to wherevewr he/she may go...hopefully, to a place where they can be appreciated for their original intent.

This thread continues to break my heart...it is exactly what we lived thru in Bridgeport...The quote above, at least to me, signifies the largest part of this problem...a church would not lead people away from "organized religion"...but the BCC definitely is...

Chris

Gordo,

Just quickly looking over the postings that have come in this past weekend...So I apologize, you may have already answered this...Are you saying you have been wounded by the Church??? I don't understand how that is possible since the Church is the body of Christ...how does Christ wound us???


Chris

Chris,

The Church exists in both time and eternity. In time, the Church exists in history in her members (the laity, monastics, the clergy, etc.) throughout the world. In eternity, the Church is made up of the "saints" who have gone before us "marked with the sign of faith". We are certainly not wounded by the Church in its heavenly dimension, but we can be in its earthly dimension.

In ICXC,

Gordo

I have been attending the Ukrainian Catholic parish in Lindenhurst for the past few months. I have seen a few other people from Smithtown start going there as well. They have two Liturgies in English at 5 PM on Saturday and 9 AM on Sunday and a Ukrainian Liturgy at 10 AM on Sunday.

Meg, I know that there is no accountability and that the diminished income will hasten "the end" as Fr. U. spends what does come in. As far as the "Lay Representative" is concerned, she is a lovely lady whose priest-son is part of the eparchy and who has a parish upstate NY...so I believe she is stuck in a quandry as to how far she can push without creating problems elsehwhere.

I returned home from Liturgy on Saturday so down...our vibrant and warm Church is so dark and cold, cold, cold. Fr. U. is distant and cold...as you know, he doesn't even want know or call us by name us as we receive the Eucharist. As an additive, he has made participation next to difficult with his chosen "cantor/sacristan" conducting. However, my faith is my faith and will not be challenged by mere mortals....but l do know that I am now so "gun-shy" that I shall never be able to extend myself as openly and completely wherever I may wind up. I cannot and will not financially support Fr. U's drive to put us out of existence.

In Faith, I pray for us, I pray for Fr. Dan...and am grateful for the almost 40 good years that we knew.

Take heart, Spinrose. If you find another church with another priest like Father Dan, you will be able to extend yourself openly and completely. The goodnes and kindness of that priest will open your heart, and you will not be able but to extend yourself. It's part of human nature; when someone is kind to us, we want to return that kindness in some way. When someone treats us badly, it's hard to find warm thoughts about that person. That's the hardest part of what Christ teaches us - not to judge. That is why we find it so hard to "warm up" to Father Untereiner. He keeps us at a distance and treats us badly, and it is oh so hard to find any forgiveness in our hearts for him.

We have found another church with a wonderful priest, who is kind, warm, and caring. We attend Liturgy there occasionally, but don't want to leave Church of the Resurrection yet because we would so miss our church "family." But once in awhile, we need the solace of being able to worship at a church that is warm and caring like ours used to be. What keeps us from thinking we might join this church when Church of the Resurrection closes is fear that, although this priest and the parish family are warm and welcoming, there might be a hierarchy just like our Bishop and his cohorts. It is a dilemma. I pray for guidance every night; that's about all we can do at this point.

You are right, also, about the congregation now being unable to join in singing the responses during Liturgy. I used to so love doing so; now it is virtually impossible. Even that has been taken away from us.