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Mar 25th, 2025
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Joined: Jun 2002
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It is unfortunate that my question led to this "obsession" dispute. It was a question that has arisen from genuine ignorance and I still hope someone will answer it. I can see that this issue generates real passion--I just want to know to know the source.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Thanks for the reply. The good thing is you'll NEVER see this on Saturday evenings in the OCA.(BCC anyone?) Good.
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Joined: May 2006
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The good thing is you'll NEVER see this on Saturday evenings in the OCA.(BCC anyone?) Etnick, obviously you were inserting sarcasm when you wrote 'BCC anyone?'. But for those who don't know, 90%+ of BCC parishes don't celebrate vespers and/or matins. What's even more amazing is that the Cathedral in Munhall has the time to celebrate Saturday evening Liturgy and doesn't celebrate Vespers even though they have a more than qualified cantor who knows vespers and quite frankly have absolutely no excuse to not be celebrating Vespers. what a shame Monomakh
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Joined: May 2003
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No one has any excuse for not celebrating Vespers. They can be sung on a single note, or to any tone a person knows.
Just my opinion...
Nick
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Nu, well word on the street is that this whole foul business that emanated from Cyril and Methodius will soon be a thing of the past. Lets just say a little bird told me!  Alexandr
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Getting back to my original post, does anyone here have an English copy of a Ukrainian Orthodox liturgy book?
I'm just curious if what I heard is universal in the UOC. If no one can reply, I'll have to check out another parish.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Sorry, all I have in English is UOC Canada which does not use tha language you mentioned.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Nu, well word on the street is that this whole foul business that emanated from Cyril and Methodius will soon be a thing of the past. Lets just say a little bird told me! ;\)
Alexandr Does this mean we will get the full Ruthenian Recension? Please say that's what you're saying!
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Glory to Jesus Christ! Since this is my first post, I will introduce myself before offering my thoughts on the question related to liturgical translations of the Ukrainian Orthodox.
My name is Father Paisius McGrath and I'm a priest in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA serving Sts. Peter and Paul Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Lyndora, PA and Protection of the Holy Virgin Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Arnold, PA. I'm a convert to Orthodoxy having grown up in the Mennonite Church.
Now as far as the questions of liturgical translations used in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA. While many of our parishes do use the text for Divine Liturgy contained in the UOC-USA Prayer Book(3rd edition 2004), many continue to use the texts they had been using: given that our official texts were kept in Ukrainian for so long, many of our older parishes that desired English started using the translations from the OCA or texts translated into English by their priest. This will help to account for the differences in some of the words used. This situation has existed for a long time, and is slowly changing so that eventually the prayer is that all our parishes will use the Divine Liturgy text contained in our Prayer Book.
With that background to the questions put out there for your consideration, let us look at what the Prayer Book says about the questioned phrases. Our prayer gives the two phrases in question as " The Holy Gifts for the Holy"(p.167)just before Communion of the Clergy and " for He is Good and the Lover of all mankind"(p.176) at the Dismissal prayer.
I hope this helps.
Your servant in Christ;
Father Paisius McGrath
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Joined: Nov 2005
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emanated from Cyril and Methodius What do I know...although, 2 of the people are pushing the inclusive language and revised music (I don't have much of a problem with the revised music myself) come from C&M...but knowing some of those who are there I would not lay blanket criticism on C&M... Sorry to digress from the Topic of the Ukrainian Orthodox Revised Liturgy...
Last edited by Job; 09/27/07 11:12 AM.
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Glory to Jesus Christ! Since this is my first post, I will introduce myself before offering my thoughts on the question related to liturgical translations of the Ukrainian Orthodox.
My name is Father Paisius McGrath and I'm a priest in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA serving Sts. Peter and Paul Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Lyndora, PA and Protection of the Holy Virgin Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Arnold, PA. I'm a convert to Orthodoxy having grown up in the Mennonite Church.
Now as far as the questions of liturgical translations used in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA. While many of our parishes do use the text for Divine Liturgy contained in the UOC-USA Prayer Book(3rd edition 2004), many continue to use the texts they had been using: given that our official texts were kept in Ukrainian for so long, many of our older parishes that desired English started using the translations from the OCA or texts translated into English by their priest. This will help to account for the differences in some of the words used. This situation has existed for a long time, and is slowly changing so that eventually the prayer is that all our parishes will use the Divine Liturgy text contained in our Prayer Book.
With that background to the questions put out there for your consideration, let us look at what the Prayer Book says about the questioned phrases. Our prayer gives the two phrases in question as " The Holy Gifts for the Holy"(p.167)just before Communion of the Clergy and " for He is Good and the Lover of all mankind"(p.176) at the Dismissal prayer.
I hope this helps.
Your servant in Christ;
Father Paisius McGrath Thank you Father Paisius. Your reply is the the best answer to my original question.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994 Likes: 10
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My OCA parish had a joint celebration vesperal liturgy with the Ukrainian Orthodox parish right around the corner from us last night, for the exaltation of the cross.
I was shocked twice. Once before communion, when the priest said "Holy gifts for holy people" The other came at the final blessing when we heard "For he is good and loves humanity."
I wonder if the RDL was borrowed from this? Can any other Ukrainian Orthodox here verify if this is in your books? 'Holy Gifts for the holy people'? I hear that every Sunday in the Greek Orthodox Church. 'For He is good and loves mankind'... That is what I hear. I will admit that if wording changed, it would annoy me, not because one is more or less correct, but just because we are human, and that is part of our makeup--to like what we know and are comfortable with. The wording of the Creed in my jurisdiction has (recently) officially changed since I spent one year as a child tediously memorizing it-- I REFUSE to read the new version because I want to say it by heart the way I learned it, and with the particular words which I am comfortable with. If one sits near my, one might perceive a confusing cacophany, but change comes hard to many of us!  (one of these days or years, I will probably cave in.... ) Just my two cents, Alice
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Forum Keilbasa Sleuth Member
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I would tend to think the word "gifts" is a much better term to describe the Body and Blood of Jesus rather than the word "things."
Last edited by Orthodox Pyrohy.; 10/04/07 11:36 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Alice, but just because we are human We all know its not politically correct to use the term hu man.
Last edited by Ray S.; 10/10/07 08:37 AM.
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