www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Higher Calling? Women Ordained to the "Catholic" Priesthood

A good point Terry. It would not be unusual though for local matters to be addressed locally. An ecumenical council is held much less often and deals with issues, for the most part, that address the whole of the Church. But again, what this local synod in the 4th century was attempting to address is unclear today.

"Terry, I am not advocating women's ordination. I am just saying that the arguments typically used against women's ordination are not very strong.

Joe"[/quote]

In the end though, the arguments, weak or strong, give way to faith.

And how does he know that? Perhaps there are plenty of vocations killed in war, or miscarried, or killed in car accidents? Or, perhaps there are plenty of married men who are called by God to be priests but Rome won't allow it?

Joe

In the end though, the arguments, weak or strong, give way to faith. [/quote]

May, this is very true. But when the Church can only muster weak arguments, she opens herself up to the charge that faith is just blind. Not saying I agree with this. I'm just saying that I can understand this charge and point of view.

Joe

Yes and no.

It is the infallible teaching of the Magisterium and thus reflects Apostolic Tradition.

But I think it is important to be able to articulate how this teaching fits into the deposit of revealed truth. It is not forbidden to ask "Why?" or to seek to understand and thus, if necessary, defend.

God bless,

Gordo

Probably a mixture of all the above.

Gordo

Yes...I look forward to the day that Rev. Joyce Meyer graces our pulpits...NOT!

http://www.joycemeyer.org/

Gordo

And how does he know that? Perhaps there are plenty of vocations killed in war, or miscarried, or killed in car accidents? [/quote]We can only surmise that God is calling the number of priests that he wants. God is in charge.That one is easy. God does not ask his people to be disobedient to his church! One of the tests in the official process of canonization is to review the person's obedience to the Church. That is also one of the tests for personal revelation-ie apparitions. This also applies to women's vocations to the priesthood. God does not ask his people to disobey his church!

I challenge that. The statistics say the opposite. True there may be the odd parish where there is a female minister where that parish is booming but it is not the panacea that women predicted. What female ministers have brought however is division and deviation from the Gospel. They tend to promote radical feminism and their political agenda.

Celibacy is a discipline in the West. It is not dogma nor doctrine. And exceptions are made. Not ordaining women is another matter. Both recent popes have declared that they do not have the authority to ordain women to the priesthood. And some complain about a monarchical pope!! Wow. The popes themselves say that they don't have the authority.
True as the only argument against female priests it is weak but add to that the 2000 year history and canons it becomes strong.
Now for the gentile part, Jesus was called first for the Jews then his apostles were sent to the gentiles.

No...but would He be generous to the Latin Church with vocations if married men would be permitted to be ordained (more than those that are already)?

Most decidedly yes.

And are there men who believe themselves to be called to priesthood that, in order to realize this call, are forced by Church law to sacrifice their desire to be married and be a husband and father in order to realize this vocation?

Absolutely.

There is no choice under the Latin Code - no freedom to embrace both callings.

A shame, really.

Gordo

Gordo,

When you say this:
... you imply that you know what the Holy Spirit's mind is. Sure people can feel attracted to both, but that's not the nature of a divine vocation (to the priesthood, marriage, or anything else), which includes the pros and cons, and thus requires a decision based on freedom, not coercion. When you get married, for example, you choose one woman, not one woman with an option on all the rest! In the Eastern tradition, a man retains the possibility of a divine vocation to the priesthood even after marriage, and that's fine too. But I don't see either as a simply human "choice", like "career moves".

Having said that, if at some future conclave, one Gordo the Byzantine is found on the majority of ballots, and you are elected Pope, AND you then decided that a married priesthood in the West should be fostered as one option, I wouldn't be one bit disturbed! (Seriously.)

Best,
Michael

Michael,

If I was ever elected Pope you should be very disturbed!

Not only should you demand a recount, but my first words to the crowds gathered in St. Peter's Square, to play off of Pope John Paul II of blessed memory, would be: "Be afraid! Be very afraid!"

I sure would be!!!

Seriously, I understand and appreciate your point. True, it is not simly a "career choice", it is a calling only a few have.

But I think if one considers St. Paul's exortation to St. Timothy regarding the selection of bishops (sacerdotal ministry) and deacons, the witness of family life is a key consideration. By excluding married men from consideration for the priesthood, I believe the Latin Church has strayed in its prudential judgement on this matter and so have NO hesitation whatsoever in saying that God would bless a restoration of this ancient practice.

The fact that some former Protestant clergy have been ordained to the priesthood and thus have a calling to a dual vocation illustrates this point, I believe. Dual vocations do exist within the Latin Church.

At this point, Rome is (not deliberately mind you, but in essence) permitting Latin Catholic parishes to go priestless in favor of what really amounts to an optional discipline for the clergy. The Mysteries of Salvation require an ordained minister to celebrate them, and the answer, not to put too fine a point on it, is not a diaconate which exists as neither fish nor fowl...sort of "priest, second-class"!

Granted, there are some men who choose not to follow the calling of God for reasons other than celibacy...and Rome has every right to establish this discipline for the Latin Church and is not in any way unjust for doing so. But she is not free to avoid the consequences of this decision, which I pray will one day change.

For my part, I certainly have great respect for celibacy as a discipline and an eschatalogical sign of the kingdom. Marriage is also an eschatalogical sign, however, and, IMHO and according to the practice of the ancient Church as stated by Vatican II, should not preclude a man from serving as a priest in the household of the Church.

God bless,

Gordo

While I have a real issue with women being ordained to the priesthood, I've heard some marvelous, orthodox, and inspiring preaching by women at the Anglo-Catholic parish that I have been frequenting. Women do have that gift, whether they CAN be ordained or not.

John

John,

There's no question that women can have a real talent or charism for preaching and teaching. Not to mention some of the older generations, I think of Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, and even Mother Angelica of EWTN. Not to mention the thousands of wonderful "teaching sisters", to some of whom I am extremely indebted personally.

Gordo,

A Pope Gordo would have all the benefits of the Holy Spirit that any Pope has. Noli timere!

I have known some of the earliest married priests to enter the Catholic Church under the Anglican pastoral provision, and I have no difficulty appreciating how married priests can be outstanding examples of living the Christian life!

Michael