www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News EWTN to air Ukrainian/Ruthenian Celebration

I am not offended by your words, yes, EWTN should be commended for broadcasting the service.

I am very disappointed in how the service came off to EWTN's viewers. It portrayed a scenario that all Greek Catholics in America are all just one big happy Ukrainian Catholic Community here in America, listening to Cardinal Husar and Archbishop Soroka like UPA soldiers crying, "Slava Ukraini!" .

Here in lies the problem...

It should not have been advertised and marketed as an "Important event....Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church." Last I remember, the Byzantine Catholic Church has just about as many members (until they all leave because of the revised RDL), and does not report to Kiev, but to Rome directly. Of course, the hierarchy of the Byzantine Catholic Church might not have wanted to take part, might not have been offered any part in the festivities.

Boy, I wonder what Bishops Takach, Kosicko, and Bilock, would have though about this?

I am not Ukrainian Greek Catholic, no was I ever. I am Ruthenian (Rusyn) Greek Catholic, but that church has dropped just about all references to its nationality, so...I guess I need to state it this way. I am part of the Byzantine Catholic Archeparchy of Pittsburgh with its origins through the Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachevo. This church is sui juris direct to Rome, not Lviv, Keiv, or anywhere in Ukraine.

Why was no mention made in this broadcast about the other Greek Catholics that Bishop Sotor Ortynsky was responsible for? Back in 1907, there were just as many, if not more ethnically non-Ukrainian, Greek Catholic Churches here in America.

Is it because the Byzantine Bishops are ready to merge with the Ukrainian Catholic Church, as almost happened in the 1950's? I saw all the Byzantine Catholic Bishops there. None of them seemed to mind being there. I guess ethnic ties are good unless it happens to be Rusyn (just look up other posts on this issue).

Is it because the other non-Ukrainian Greek Catholics (Hungarians, Slovaks, Croatians), but especially the Rusyns were not happy about the appointment of Ortynsky, his bias for trying to bring in only Galician priests, and his Ukrainian nationalism?

I must commend the Ukrainian Catholic Church, though, for keeping, preserving, and promoting their Ukrainian heritage. The use of Church Slavonic and Ukrainian was impressive. Even Archbishop Soroka spoke Ukrainian. Too bad I cannot say the same for the Byzantine Catholic Church.

Hmmmm......makes you wonder. Maybe the revised RDL will make enough faithful leave in the BCC so that the two churches can indeed merge and become one UGCC in America.


Bo�e, milostiv budi mňi hri�nomu.

Glory to Jesus Christ!


Just to correct a popular misconception: leitourgia does not mean "work of the people." It means a "public service" or "work that takes place where the public is," probably in a man-made building or under a roof (hence the -on ending). See the LSJ entry at Perseus here. [perseus.org]

If it were the "people's work," the Greek word would be leorgia or laorgia.

In Christ,
Theophilos

Nope, can't say that we are singing too slowly, or that we were ordaining anyone. The last time Vladika Gabriel was in my parish, vesting was at 0900, and we were going up to kiss the Cross at 1230. And after living more than 6 years in the monastery at Jordanville, I can't remember one that didn't go about 3 hours.

Alexandr

Thanks Ray!

I don't think my posts can justly be considered as complaints. I made it a point to state that the September 30 Divine Liturgy was beautiful and magnificent in its own right. I even said that it far surpassed almost all Latin-rite liturgies I can think of. I can't even think of a single recent Papal Mass that can hold a candle to that historic service, in terms of depth and theological richness.

My observations were not, properly speaking, criticisms or complaints. They were observations, period.

When I noted that it seemed as if some things were missing from the September 30 DL, I was simply stating an honest observation, which is why I asked people here to enlighten me whether the lacunae that I perceived in the service were really omissions, or whether these are "the way things are" in the UGCC and Byzantine Catholic liturgy as opposed to the Russian and Greek traditions as I understood these. I wanted to learn, nothing more. I did not intend to appear as if I was disparaging the UGCC's liturgy.

When I noted that there seemed to be a palpable difference between Byzantine Catholic and Eastern Orthodox liturgies, I was only stating another long-held observation, albeit one that I myself (and perhaps some of you) find quite disquieting. As I stated in one of my posts, I happened to listen, practically right after watching the September 30 DL, to a complete recording of the Divine Liturgy celebrated last September by ROCOR and MP hierarchs at the San Francisco Cathedral of the ROCOR, and I could not help but notice the utter difference in spirit, tempo and "feel" between it and the UGCC's September 30 liturgy. In stating this, I never said that the UGCC's liturgy was somehow defective. I simply meant to convey that while the UGCC liturgy was indeed beautiful, it seemed as if the ROCOR/MP liturgy was on an entirely different plane -- and I want to know why!

If I say that X seems more beautiful and more complete than Y, which for all that remains beautiful too, is such a statement a criticism or complaint against Y? I don't think so, for I am not negating Y at all; I'm simply comparing two forms -- X and Y -- each of which embodies a perfection of its own. Thus with my comments comparing the UGCC and MP/ROCOR DLs.

I do notice that when I ask a tough question regarding a certain apparent lack or problem in Eastern Catholicism, few if any ever bother to give me so much as the slightest reply. Prior to my questions regarding the Byzantine Catholic liturgy vis-a-vis Orthodox liturgy, I had asked a similar question regarding hesychasm in Byzantine Catholic communities vis-a-vis the Orthodox hesychastic tradition. Nobody answered my question on that score too! Prior to that, a prominent priest (whom I highly respect) in this Forum remarked that he thought of "beauty of worship" as his preferred distinguishing mark of the true church. When I responded that if we are to use this criterion, then Orthodoxy is the true faith, no one ever responded.

As a Latin Catholic, I find all of this very disqueting too. Surely we Catholics should have answers!

By the way, the full ROCOR liturgy I listened to, from vesting up to end of the DL, lasts 3 hours and 15 minutes. This is just a recording and I could tell that some material had been cut away. Slavipodvizhnik is right that it's really 3 hours. And he correctly noted that the choir doesn't sing slowly at all. To the contrary, the singing is vigorous, fast, lively, covering all but thirty minutes of the entire recording! That precisely is the fact that pricked my curiosity: where in the liturgical books did they get so much to sing, as opposed to the apparently much shorter UGCC service (2 hours 40 minutes beginning with the procession of hierarchs, much of it covered by two,long statements)? Again, this is just a question -- not a criticism, not a complaint. Just a question!

A few hours ago photos from the celebrations were posted on Ukrainian Philadelphia Archeparchy's website. http://www.ukrarcheparchy.us/.

Please check it out.

Great photos!

Slava Isusu Khyrstu!

I am wondering if any of the members of the Byzantine Forum might possibly have knowlege if EWTN is going to be showing that magnificent Divine Liturgy again from Philadelphia. I did tape it but I can only view the tape on one VCR in my home. I would like to be able to re-tape if it possible because the tape that I taped at a speed too quickly, so it shakes a little in my personal VCR. I used a VCR in the house that is in our common TV room. I am wondering if any one might be willing to make a copy of a tape that they might have for me. I would be willing to remimburse the person. Thank you so much!

May the Lord Bless You!

John Doucette

I wonder if the Archeparchy has any plans to put it on DVD?

Father Paul Wolensky, pastor of Saint Vladimir's Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Scranton, PA sent this letter to EWTN. I reprint it here with his permission:

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear EWTN Program Director(s),

Please accept my deep and heartfelt gratitude and that of my whole parish, for agreeing to broadcast the September 30 Ukrainian Celebration from Philadelphia. As a member of the Bishop's Planning Committee, I was privileged to help plan and participate in the celebration. The Divine Liturgy was so beautiful and memorable for many reasons, and your excellent television production will enable me and many others to revisit and enjoy that celebration for years to come. May I also commend you on the technical crew you sent to Philadelphia to produce this broadcast! I had the good fortune to speak with a group of them in the parking lot after the service, and I was most impressed with them. A fine and talented group - you can be proud of how well they represented EWTN!

Also, on behalf of many Ukrainian Catholics and friends of our Church, please consider broadcasting this celebration again in the near future. So many folks who missed it are just now hearing about it, and are fervently asking if it will be broadcast again. Please do broadcast it again, and let us know well ahead of time, so we can get the word out. Our people greatly enjoy your programming, and this celebration has won you many more viewers.

Again, THANK YOU! Keep up the good work!

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Rev. Fr. Paul Wolensky

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To which I add, I hope others on our Byzantine Forum will be moved to do the same.

Ray

Thanks for the link of the photos!

Chudovo! I would love a copy of any recording of the Hierarchal Divine Liturgy to my kids and college class.

Did Apostolic Administrator Shashik of the Ruthenian Eparchy of Uzhorod/Mukachevo sit in at the Ukrainian Synod? How about Bishop Chautar (Exarch of Kosice) or Bishop Babiak of Prjashev?

Ungcsertezs

Shashik, yes. Chautar and Babiak, no. See page three:
http://www.ukrarcheparchy.us/theway/20070923-theway.pdf

Liturgy will be released on DVD in a few days. You will be able to purchase it through Byzantine Church Supplies [ukrcathedralphiladelphia.net].