www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Vespers vs. Saturday night liturgy

My own parish currently has Saturday evening Vespers, but our new priest is considering replacing it with another evening liturgy- in order for folks who work Sundays to meet their Sunday obligation.

Anyone have experience with this argument against Vespers?

I personally find Vespers extreme rewarding worship, but have mostly run into the "If it isn't Mass, it isn't church" mentality within my congregation.

(First added this under a long thread about the RDL, but figured it would get lost there.)

...and Vespers ONLY on eves of feast days, yes, by all means.

Ungcsertezs

The Particular Law of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in the USA allows Vespers, Matins or the Divine Liturgy to meet the "Sunday obligation". The Sunday cycle is thus respected in its entirety.

Don't know if the Ruthenian Metropolia has a similar provision.

Reader Jim,

I will keep your church in my prayers. I hope that Vespers will be retained because it is an excellent preparation for the Sunday Divine Liturgy. You can always come and visit us at St. John of the Desert, Vespers every Saturday at 5PM. We could use an extra voice now and then.

I've been in the OCA almost a year now. My experience has been that in most parishes vespers is sparsely attended, but is ALWAYS held every Saturday.


It is consistently celebrated in every parish in my area every week, unless a certain parish cancels it for any number of reasons for a particular weekend.

It seems to me that if someone wanted to start a petition, one to ask the Byzantine Catholic bishops to amend their Particular Law to follow the CCEO in allowing Vespers or Matins to satisfy the Sunday obligation of divine worship would be a very good one - since it would at least potentially draw support from a number of different areas (vostichniki, old folks who still REMEMBER Vespers, members and pastors of mission parishes, etc.)

Jeff

The OCA parish here gets more people at Vespers than we do, even though it is in a bad neighborhood. Of course, they do have a choir, which tends to beef up attendance. They also do Vespers on the eve of feasts as well as Saturdays.

Diak, thanks for the tip about the UGCC obligation criteria. I am told that we don't have such a thing within the Ruthenian metropolia yet, hence this consideration of dropping Vespers in favor of yet another liturgy. Our metropolia requires episcopal approval for someone to miss Sundays without failing to meet their obligation.

Rabb, I may find myself traveling to St. John's as well as the OCA parish and a local Antiochean mission- just for Vespers- soon.

Jim,

Thanks for moving it, I'm sure this will be a good topic.

It has been my understanding that attending Vespers on Saturday in lieu of Divine Liturgy on Sunday has long been considered acceptable in the Byzantine tradition. (I'm not sure if there are any stipulations added, such as "out of necessity.")

I agree that Vespers is an excellent form of worship, and I think it would be tragic if your parish gives it up. As it is, few EC parishes have weekly Vespers, and I'm told there are a number of OC parishes in the US that do not have it, either.

I pray that your pastor will consider catechesis on this subject as an alternative to the "lowest denominator" mentality. Perhaps you can offer to assist him in this.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Reader Jim,

I know you have a great voice and great skill. Also, I hope that when I return to Phoenix, us Eastern Catholics can plan on many many different and frequent occasions to celebrate Vespers, the Royal Hours and even possibly Divine Liturgy together!

Of course, it wouldn't hurt me to foster relationships thi our Orthodox breathern either.

I will not deny that low numbers at Vespers seems to plague our Churches. But I LOVE Vespers and am currently trying to make room for celebrating Compline and possibly th other Royal Hours in my life (of course, personal and properly modified).

All our prayers and traditions are beautiful. Besides, I have found a few student at the University who are willing to pray, despite their lack of experience and time.

Deacon Richard, thank you for your observations. However, in my case the reason pushing the possible change from Vespers to Liturgy is a need for working people to meet their Sunday obligation when they can't make it to church on Sunday. I think it is a dubious reason myself, but I don't make the decision, and the Ruthenian hierarchs have yet to give a definitive position.

Jeff,

Sounds like a great idea! Since there is a precedent, this shouldn't appear to be totally "off the wall" from the bishops' perspective.

You could try sending PMs to all the BCs on this forum, and ...


Peace,
Deacon Richard