www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Melkites: an Addendum of thoughts

Those questions simply reflect the views of the Melkite Catholic Patriarch, and as he has said, "With all respect due to the Petrine ministry, the Patriarchal ministry is equal to it, 'servatis servandis', in Eastern ecclesiology."

Wrong thread, so post deleted.

Alexis

Kyr John is a wonderful and holy man. I like him very much.
I have been thinking about this comment in particular:

Doesn't conciliarism refer to a time in the history of the Holy Church of Rome when some Bishops wanted to be or act as the Pope?

Conciliarism is the view that the Council is the highest authority in the Church and that the Council is above Pope. It has been condemned as heresy by Rome. It is the view of the Orthodox Church.

Joe

I believe that Orthodoxy embraces Apostolic Canon 34 as the normative expression of its position, and that canon teaches that primacy and synodality are inseparably bound together.

Robert,

It took me a while to remember my Latin, but 'servatis servandis' is from the verb servare, which means to save, preserve or keep.

Therefore, the phrase translates as: 'those things that have been preserved [servatis] must be preserved [servandis].'


Peace,
Deacon Richard

This is what really makes me think. How can the question spark "conciliarism" if synodality and Primacy are bound together in this way.

In fact, if, as His Beatitude Greogorios III has said, the Patriarchal ministry is equal to the Peterine ministry in Eastern Ecclesiology and it is clear that we have our own traditions and we are taught this tradition, why is there even a question of ecumenical councils?

I suppose I should ask Kyr John himself.

Has Rome said anything about the other patriarchal ministries being equal to the Pope?

Joe

It is important to remember that Pope St. Gregory the Great called the historic petrine Churches, one see "in three places," and so the Melkite Patriarch is also a successor of Peter.

That said, the pope is only primus inter pares within the original pentarchy.

All bishops are sacramentally equal. Thus, there can be no disparity of priesthood or authority within the Episcopal order, because all the bishops are successors of all the apostles, including St. Peter.

Yes, I realize this. In my view this is evidence against the papal office as currently conceived by Rome. But somehow I don't get the impression that the Vatican shares St. Gregory the Great's view.

Joe

But is this what Rome says? Wouldn't Rome say that yes, all Bishops are sacramentally equal, but certain Bishops (such as Rome) occupy an office that gives them greater authority in virtue of the office itself?

Joe

As Eastern Christians generally acknowledge, the Roman Church confuses the authority that the Pope has as Patriarch of the West with the doctrine of primacy all the time. But the episcopal order is by definition one, and so there cannot be "levels" within it.

There is no sacrament of primacy.

If Rome teaches doctrinal error concerning the nature of her primacy, then how can one be in communion with her?

Joe

Interestingly, if you read through the Ravenna Document, it is the Roman Church that is having to reinterpret it previous statements about primacy, not the Orthodox. I think this is very revealing, because it shows that the West is finally restoring a "eucharistic ecclesiology" (i.e., an ecclesiology of communion).