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Mar 25th, 2025
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I am quite sympathetic with the Melkites and with Patriarch Gregory, but what realistic hopes are there for a change? I don't hear Rome listening to him. Joe
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Re: #2 When was this law changed? Dr. Eric: It's been a relatively recent change. I believe that His Holiness, John Paul II, of blessed memory changed it. It is at least since Vatican II. BOB Section 1, Canon 351 of the Latin Code of Canons: Those to be promoted Cardinals are men freely selected by the Roman Pontiff, who are at least in the order of priesthood and are truly outstanding in doctrine, virtue, piety and prudence in practical matters; those who are not already Bishops must receive episcopal consecration.
Last edited by Amadeus; 10/18/07 10:46 AM.
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Joe, Your take on the situation is certainly spot on. I continue to push; God puts us where He wants us. 
Last edited by Laka Ya Rabb; 10/18/07 11:03 AM.
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Sorry missed this... Kind of makes them seem like a strange sub group incapable of managing themselves. Sounds like Rome at least gets something right!!! 
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The simple thing to do about such absurd "rules" is to ignore them. It drives the canonists crazy, but then canonists are crazy to begin with.
Fr. Serge
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The simple thing to do about such absurd "rules" is to ignore them. It drives the canonists crazy, but then canonists are crazy to begin with.
Fr. Serge Father bless, I certainly do ignore them.  But they do reflect the mindset of those running the show in the Vatican. Joe
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For that matter, why is there a "congregation for the Oriental churches". Kind of makes them seem like a strange sub group incapable of managing themselves. It makes the Eastern patriarchs and major archbishops just seem like another grouping of bishops in the Curia. Faces in the crowd.
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Sorry missed this... Kind of makes them seem like a strange sub group incapable of managing themselves. Sounds like Rome at least gets something right!!! What is that supposed to mean?
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(4) Eastern Patriarchs who are created Cardinals belong to Order of Bishops in the College of Cardinals (Section 1, Canon 350, Latin Code of Canons) but are ranked lower than the Latin Cardinals who hold suburbicarian titles. Further, the Dean and Vice Dean of the College are Latin Rite Cardinals, who are elected by and among the 6 Latin Rite Cardinals within the Order of Bishops. (Recently, the membership in the Order of Bishops has been "divided" into Cardinal Bishops [Latin Rite] and Cardinal Partriarchs [Eastern Patriarchs]. Let me get this straight now, no matter if the Patriarch is the head of one of the sui juris churches, he will always rank lower than a cardinal with a titular see and no real diocese. Isn't that like saying "no matter what, you are only second class"? Not much there for any of the Orthodox to look forward to in the manner of reunion. In IC XC, Father Anthony+ Rome has a very grand view of its own importance.
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The simple thing to do about such absurd "rules" is to ignore them. It drives the canonists crazy, but then canonists are crazy to begin with.
Fr. Serge But until Rome gets at least this right, unity with the Orthodox will only be a pipe dream. I have the greatest respect for the Patriarchs who adamantly refuse to be Cardinals. Gordo
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But until Rome gets at least this right, unity with the Orthodox will only be a pipe dream.
I have the greatest respect for the Patriarchs who adamantly refuse to be Cardinals.
Gordo Indeed. While it is very nice of Rome to give cardinal titles to Eastern heirarchs it's still a Roman office that belongs in the Roman Church.
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(4) Eastern Patriarchs who are created Cardinals belong to Order of Bishops in the College of Cardinals (Section 1, Canon 350, Latin Code of Canons) but are ranked lower than the Latin Cardinals who hold suburbicarian titles. Further, the Dean and Vice Dean of the College are Latin Rite Cardinals, who are elected by and among the 6 Latin Rite Cardinals within the Order of Bishops. (Recently, the membership in the Order of Bishops has been "divided" into Cardinal Bishops [Latin Rite] and Cardinal Partriarchs [Eastern Patriarchs]. Let me get this straight now, no matter if the Patriarch is the head of one of the sui juris churches, he will always rank lower than a cardinal with a titular see and no real diocese. Isn't that like saying "no matter what, you are only second class"? Not much there for any of the Orthodox to look forward to in the manner of reunion. In IC XC, Father Anthony+ Rome has a very grand view of its own importance. In the first instance, parity seems to be the norm. Major Archbishop Husar of the UGCC leads a particular Church of about 5 million worldwide. The Archbishops of Rio de Janeiro, of Mexico City, of Manila, and of many Archdioceses in the world lead substantially more fatihful than him. But all of them are Cardinals equally belonging to the Order of Cardinal Priests in the College of Cardinals, only their date of elevation determining their seniority over each other. In the reverse, the Patriarchs (or retired Patriarchs) of the Maronites, the Syrians, the Copts, and the Chaldeans have smaller faithful than many Latin Archdioceses worldwide but the Eastern Patriarchs are honored to be included in the Order of Bishops in the College of Cardinals, outranking ALL the world's Latin Cardinals shepherding large Archdioceses. What else should be done? Do you have any alternatives?
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Who is it that elects the Patriarch of Constantinople or Moscow? I think that it would be important to look at how this is done in the Orthodox Church.
Joe
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