www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Here we go again!

I don't think I've mentioned homosexuality much (relatively) at all - obviously I don't condone it, neither do I condone any of the other things John mentioned - in fact I think I am one of the few who have posted about the Iraq War..

It is a big issue in the States and the West now because the West is struggling with the activists, (mainly in the US, Europe and Canada have already succumbed to the activists) just as abortion was an everyday topic when Roe v. Wade was a new court decision.. who even talks about abortion regularly at all in this country (other than the Catholics)? And we're perceived as the kooks.

I agree that many forms of Christianity take a completely unChristian stance when it comes to homosexuality, yet don't even blink when divorce, adultery, abortion, death penalty, Iraq, etc are mentioned - but I don't think that is this forum. Most here are opposed to Iraq, against abortion, against death penalty, against divorce, adultery, and consider homosexuality a sin (but do NOT condone any person being harmed). Personally, I don't even have a problem with the state allowing civil union/gay marriage/ call it whatever, as long as we don't have to recognize it. But we all know that when that much is allowed, much more will be demanded. Look at the planned-parenthood activists, they are legally allowed to do what they want but now they've gotten Catholic Charities to foot the bill for their employees...

These are not run of the mill homosexuals. These are willful blasphemers. They live to mock Jesus Christ and His Eucharist.
"Everyone who says a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven." Don't pretend this is a gay-bashing issue. It is not. The voices here are defending their faith and their love of Our Lord and his Eucharist. The "nuns" may not even be gay. Who cares if they are? What is important is that they are purposefully degrading the Mass as instituted by Our Savior. If this happened where I live, these freaks would get the message the hard way. They would never show up at church again...unless they were repentant and recognized, as Moses did, that the sancuarty is holy ground.

Let's keep focused on the issue here. The issue is the Liturgy and those who are showing active disrespect for it.

The second issue is that there is no active opposition by those charged to guard the Mysteries--the bishop and the clergy involved.

That it is an openly homosexual group that is in complete disagreement with Catholci teaching about their activities is the third issue.

But the most important one is the one Alexandr makes--the shameful disrespect for the sacred, for the Divine Liturgy.

Actually as true believers we need to pray for these people so that the Lord's anger is averted. As He said on the Cross, "Father, forgive them. They know not what they do."

BOB

Hi Everybody,

A few points:

First, I am going to go ahead and be Chrismated in the Orthodox Church (OCA) on Theophany (January 6th), 2008. Thanks be to God, your prayers, the prayers of others, and my wonderful pastor.

Second, and just to be clear, I am not against the Church's teachings on sex and sexuality. Anymore, after debates and instances like this, I support those teachings more and more. This culture (the modern West) has gone completely out of touch with God's freedom; and it has become enslaved to man's fallen sensuality -- whether that be physical or ideological; and we need the practice of divine self-discipline more than ever.

Third, I apologize to anyone (especially Alice) if they were offended by my posts.

Fourth, I'm tired of the hate and bigotry that certain topics bring out in some people sometimes; and I won't be participating in them anymore.

Fifth: Vespers does wonders for the soul.

Much Love,

-- John

JOHN:

Be sure of the issues. This one got quickly off topic and into personalities.

Actually, given the attempts to make the Liturgy "the work of the people" rather than God's Saving Action in and through Jesus Christ, it does not surprise me that this type of thing should surface. First it shocks; then it angers; and then one lets it fester. It's like the grief reaction.

On another thread, our brother, Alexandr, had a piece about how a thought can get into one's mind and arouse the passions. And then the Enemy wins. We have just witnessed that here. People reacted to part of the situation but quickly moved from the deep issue involved to personalities. Perhaps that is a problem of perception in that we are to separate the sinner from the sin and hate the sin but feel love for the sinner. Love here is not that "warm fuzzy" we sometimes think it's supposed to be. It's Christ's deep and profound caring for each of us to the last drop of His Precious Blood. We should not want the wrath of God to descend on these misguided people regardless of the scandal and blasphemy we may perceive in their actions. I don't want to see anyone in Hell. Maybe we ought to take the example of one of the Desert Fathers who volunteered to take on himself the penance of his brother who had sinned. The story says that God, seeing the love of the brother, forgave the one who had sinned. Maybe the next time we have a fasting day we ought to offer a special prayer offering our fasting to God in reparation for the sins committed against th Eucharist here and in so many places.

In Christ,

BOB

Bob,

Our local Courage chapter does something similar. For the past two years they have had a day of reparation during the Gay Pride Parade here in Atlanta for all those who participate in it.

Jason

The Holy Romano-Catholic Church must apply the canons and defend the Holy Mass or Divine Liturgy, where Christ sacrifices for our redemption and we get the Holy Eucharist, His Blood and Body. THe Holy Romano-Catholic Church must plough and make order. No madness must happen in the Holy Church.

It is quite sad to see that the 'gay issues' are debated and promoted so much in the American media, for instance I saw on CNN a short docummentary where an abnormal person stated that the Republican party must situate on the right part of the history, i.e. accepting all kind of new rights as: marriage, adoption, etc.

All this is a madness beyond our common sense. I add a word of a Father: for no sin in all the history God sent fire over a city, only over Sodoma and Gomora God sent deep fire.

The Holy Romano-Catholic Church must focus, together with the Holy Orthodox Church upon promoting the life, the family, the birth of children, the marriage.

The politics must be thrown and the canons be applied. After all the gate to the Kingdom of God has only one shape: the Cross.

God have mercy upon all the souls and the whole sorrowed nature.

Marian+

Amen !

-- John

Indeed.


That is true.

St. Macarius of Egypt wrote that a consequence of the Fall of Man is wounds in our hearts (the nous); and through these, like doors, the demons can influence us and our consciousness. (Philokalia)


Hmmm. Penitentially offering all things to God in Christ, to complete (as St. Paul said) the Cross of Christ in our lives? A good point . . . thank you.

-- John

I would make the case that the church would much better off if John Paul I survived more than one month.

john:

I don't know about that one. People who have looked at the fallout in the last 40 years pinpoint Paul VI as being a bit afraid of using the iron hand to discipline out-of-control clergy, theologians, liturgists, et al. JPI was a very good and holy man but was thought to be of the same mold. The Catholic Church was headed toward a meltdown because everyone had his own interpretation of what Vatican II had intended, what Catholic teaching should be, and we had an already entrenched dissent group forming. It could have been something like the Anglican Communion is experiencing now. The issue of JPI's health, too, was something that came up. His health was rather frail to begin with and it could have been a situation where the Pope's incapcity would have caused an even greater vacuum at the top for a long period of time. That's why the cardinals who hinted at the deliberations of the second Conclave seemed to be saying that they were looking for a tough, robust person who was sure of what he believed and had the stamina to get things back track.

BOB

John Paul II was the only thing that kept the Catholic Church together for the last 20 years.

Zan, I assume you forgot to preface your comment with, "In my opinion,..."? Should it not read, "in my opinion, John Paul II was the only thing that kept the Catholic Church together for the last 20 years. "

Was every Catholic itching to reject tradition or to become a moral relativist? I don't think so.