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One of the Reasons ROCOR was looked at as a joke for so many years. Was their fanatical attachment to the Romanovs. They were always calling for their restoration.
Nicholas II was an anti-semitic despot ! Who thought God made him Tsar and that he shouldn't do anything progressive for the Russian people.
He died defending autocracy,not Orthodoxy.He is also not a saint.When the ROC beatified ? the Imperial family. The world attacked the action as insanity and showing how medieval it was.In defense the ROC said they weren't Saints but 'Passion Bearers"
which was less than Saints.

Dear JOHNYJ,

Unfortunately, friend, you've bought into the rampant communist propaganda that even the "democratic West" has accepted as gospel!

He was NOT anti-semitic and there are articles written about Tsar Nicholas II by Jews who actually lived in Tsarist Russia at the time.

He WAS progressive in that he was prepared to introduce land reforms and other benefits to the peasants.

In fact, the peasants were among his greatest supporters - it was the urban intellectual socialists who opposed him for ideological reasons.

In fact, he and other monarchs of Europe at the time were speedily dealt with by the Socialist Communist Urban Mafia (SCUM) because the former were bringing in reforms that would have made them politically irrelevant in a hurry.

On every point of criticism that you have made, repeating verbatim and rather uncritically the propaganda of the SCUM, you are wrong.

And who, in Russia, remembers the SCUM today? Only their ideological descendants in the SCUM party.

The Romanovs are Passion-Bearers which is simply a specific title for Saint - it has NO bearing on their sainthood.

If you don't believe me, ask ANY Orthodox priest or look it up for yourself.

You can also look up what a Passion-Bearer is.

I can tell you here, but judging from your post, you really should be doing some first-hand research on your own and not just accept the pat propaganda of the SCUM.

Alex

Zenovia,

There are many works on the Romanovs, Rasputin, and that era in history, but the one you mention sounds like it is a primary source.(eye witness) Can you find out the title and author? I would be interested in exploring it. As I have said above at least in two posts---I am not disputing their canonization. Thanks.

In Christ,

Mary Jo

For those who have their doubts, a reading of the summary of the commission appointed by the Moscow Patriarchate to study the Czar's life and sanctity would be very instructive. As I recall it, they point out that the success of a ruler's earthly reign is NOT the measure of sanctity. Instead what is relevant (and here forgive me if I lapse into western terms) is how the ruler lived the virtues and union with God.

Thus the parallels between the final months of the Russian Imperial Family, and King Charles I (King Charles the Martyr) of England, both of which were lives lived in constant prayer, recollection and identification with the sufferings of Christ and the will of God.

My priest Father Mike is getting a group together to Venerate the Icon.

If you are interested in joining us please private message me and I will give you the details.

Dear Mary Jo,

I think this may be the book Zenovia was talking about:

An Englishman in the Court of the Tsar: The Spiritual Journey of Charles Syndney Gibbes (Hardcover)by Christine Benagh

It is available in hardcover on Amazon.com for about $21.00. ( web page [amazon.com] )

I have also read it.

It is truly an interesting and in depth look into the profound religiousity, piety, and spirituality of the Romanovs' daily lives...and most especially touching, is the account of their last weeks and days.

I truly felt the sanctity of the Romanovs when reading this first hand account of their private lives. I can even say, without embarrassment, that I felt them somehow 'around me' when finishing the book. Because of this supernatural feeling I was blessed to feel, I have no doubt as to their proclaimed status of 'passion bearers' and as to their special status in Heaven. (...and this comes from someone with no emotional or blood connection to Russia or the Russian Orthodox Church).

If anyone is ever in Washington, D.C., you can see the recently completed iconography of the Royal Martyrs in the OCA Cathedral of St. Nicholas.

Holy Royal Martyrs, pray unto God for us!

In Christ,
Alice

Great, Alice, many thanks! Just sent you a p.m. too.

In Christ,

Mary Jo

He died defending Autocracy.He was a despot and and anti-semite he conducted pogroms in Russia into the 20th century.If the Russian Orthodox church needed a Romanov Saint the Grand duchess Elizabeth is the one they should point to, she deserves it. Or the Tsar Liberator Alexander II is a good candidate.He died doing a Heroic christian act.

I've read Nicholas and Alexandra (and yes, Alex, we know Mr. Massey converted ), as well as quite a few other books on the last Imperial Family of Russia.

I agree with Alex that Nicholas has gotten a bad rap. At the same time, I hesitate a little from thinking of him as a saint, although his heroic death does help in that regard.

He was simply a product of his time and place and lineage, and it seems he dealt with it the best he could.

Tsaritsa Alexandra, a Hessian princess-convert from Lutheranism, seems to me to be the most overtly saintly individual in that family. She carried her burdens with great courage. Some times she could become overly paranoid and a little, well - "wacked out" - for lack of a better term, and Rasputin's power certainly hinged almost totally on the gullible tsaritsa. Still, she meant no harm and gullibility is not a roadblock to sanctity, ISTM.

Logos Teen

Ray wrote:
My priest Father Mike is getting a group together to Venerate the Icon.

Please tell us about it after you go.

Thanks,
Pani Rose

Dear Teen Logo,

"Gullibility is not a roadblock to sanctity."

So it would seem there's hope for JOHNYJ yet!

KIDDING!

Help Teen Logo, help - they're coming after me!



Alex

Dear Woody,

And it was Tsar Alexis IV who was the first to refer to Charles I as "the Martyr."

The Eikon Basilike or reflections of St Charles the Martyr before his death were published in French and were used by King Louis XVI as he prepared for his death . . .

Portraits of King Charles were commissioned all over Europe and his supporters, banned from having his picture, devised ingenius ways of hiding his image from public view.

These are now collector's items at Christie's!

And I almost paid a king's ransom for a small painting of the King . . .

Almost . . .

Alex

Dear Teen,

I guarantee that if you read the first hand account of someone who lived with and saw the loving and lovely Royal family before and after their captivity, in the book I mentioned above, that you will feel differently about the whole family being made 'Passion Bearing' saints.

This book is VERY different from 'Nicholas and Alexandra' which I also read years ago...and is well worth the read. Infact, due to the sanctity and witness of piety that he experienced living with them, the (former Anglican) tutor became a Russian Orthodox priest years after their death.

I believe that it was the Holy Spirit of God that made this book possible after so many years, in order to convince us of the validity of their status in Heaven as was decided by the Russian Orthodox Church.

In Christ's love,
Alice

There is nothing wrong with autocracy so that doesn't keep someone from being a saint.

I don't believe he was any more anti-Jewish than the average Russian. Should St Paul not be a saint since he supported slavery?

Anastasios

One thing mentioned in that post is worth paying attention to. Grand Duchess Elizabeth was, I believe, a saint, and also a martyr. We don't hear as much about her as we should and she doesn't get the credit and veneration I think she deserves.