www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Total Happiness in Heaven??

Hello!
While I was nursing my baby to sleep, I started thinking about when my children grow up and "leave the nest" & how it will seem odd to be just my husband and I. Then I thought, if we are all together in heaven how wonderful that will be. Then I thought, what if someone in my family- whether my parents, spouse, children, in-laws or anyone I care about & love (or even myself for that matter!) goes astray and does not spend eternity in heaven. Not a nice thought, but Jesus tells us that the road to perdition is wide & many go there. But, I was thinking- if my kids or someone I love is not in heaven with me (hoping I'm there) & they are suffering eternal damnation in hell, how can I be joyful & happy? Heaven is love & joy- there is no sadness, but I think I would be very sad if someone in my family chose poorly & was not with Our Lord . I'm trying to square up how the saints in Heaven can be totally, 100% happy & at peace if someone they love died, rejecting God & is in hell. How does happiness & losing a loved one for all eternity square up? My husband thinks I'm thinking too much probably! oh well- that's just me I guess.
-Alexis

The total infinity of God is so great and so good that He will "wipe every tear away" (as Revelations puts it) in Heaven.

-- John

This is a hard question which I have pondered many times. The answer is fairly simple though, even though in THIS life, the answer is not altogether pleasant. And it is this: Love is not the emotional attachment we have to certain people. As wonderful as that is, it is simply something that is earthly and bound to pass away. Rather, love is doing for others and self giving and self sacrifice on behalf of someone else, regardless of our feelings for them. Hence we are commanded to "love our enemies." This seems difficult to do until we realize we need not have feelings of attachment or fondness for them in order to love them. In heaven we will be doing what we were created to do: loving God and enjoying him. Those who don't make it by their own choices will be understood by us as choosing something other than love. But we will be so enthralled with God and intent of serving and pleasing Him that we will have no thought of "former things" because all those "former things" such as relationships and feelings and the rest will have passed away. Strange isn't it? We think heaven will be a happy place and I don't doubt that it will be, but surely it is more appropriate to speak of heaven as a Joyful place, the two not being the same. I read Mother Theresa's bio "Come be my light" and came away with a profound sense of the Joy she had in Christ. Even though she was seldom a happy person, she was deeply joyful. So much so that she had a nearly perpetual genuine smile. Consider all the loss she experienced in her life. I don't think God restored those things to her after death. Rather they were replaced with the One thing to which they all symbolized "Joy in the Lord"; in other words she received the fullness of what she most truly loved and longed for: God himself.

I know what I have said above may sound somewhat stoic. I understand that. But it's not intended to be so. Our emotions are by nature good and wholesome. But like everything else they were corrupted by the fall and are "sick" or "ill". Thus our emotions or passions can be as deadly as they can be wonderful. That is why the Fathers constantly call us to reign them in and not be controlled by them. We generally fail to understand how disordered we are though, in this life. Anything that "feels good" we take as good itself. This is why we have to check our feelings and passions against the teaching of the Church. For instance, my passions tell me that I would feel secure if I had more money. And pursuit of this feeling of security is largely the motivation behind those who seek to make a lot of money. Yet, Holy Scripture tells us of a man, who in common wisdom was a wise man, who laid up store in storehouses for his future so that he would never lack. But God saw the man and said "You fool, today your soul is required of you, to whom will all these things belong that you have stored up for yourself?" This foolish wise man had forgotten to lay up treasure in heaven; that is to say, find his ultimate security in God. Rather he trusted in wealth and abundance to secure his future.

God's ways are "higher than our ways" and "beyond finding out". "who can know the mind of the LORD that he should instruct him?" There comes a point, in the end, when we must simply resolve everything to God and leave it at that trusting that He will fulfill his promises even if we cant see a foot ahead of us.

This love we have for earthly relations is a beautiful picture of God's love for us. It shows us that God not only loves us dispassionatly, with self abandoning and unconditional love, but that he loves us with genuine feeling. That is to say, he not only LOVES us but he LIKES us too. We are his FRIENDS if we do what he says. But unlike the love of God which is immutable and unchanging our loves will fail. People will die and as much as we might have loved them in this life, we tend to forget them. Otherwise how could we survive if we felt the loss every day without relief? Imagine losing a spouse and not being able to forget! How much pain would that remaining spouse endure! But thanks be to God we CAN and DO forget and He himself fills the emptiness.

My wife left me several years ago. It was the most painful event of my life because I was profoundly attached to her. I cared for her and I loved her. However, I cannot pass judgment on her because she left for reasons that I do understand. I have had to take action against myself to seek mental help to be able to change my ways. I was diagnosed with certain mental problems that made it very easy for me to fly into a rage. Now, I know there were all kinds of contributing factors that brought my mental state to a head...some were my own fault...some were the fault of others....and some were circumstances beyond anyones control but God's. Nevertheless, things found me as I was and I was not a nice person to be around. My wife had enough and said that's it. I can't take anymore and she left. If I think of her today I feel pain. But not as much as when the divorce was happening. And I expect 5 to 10 years from now, the pain will be even less. This comes about by the ability to forget. As much as I loved and was attached to my wife I am very grateful for the ability to forget her. I would not be able to function otherwise. It took me a long time to come to this position because I believed that if I chose to forget her then I was denying that I really loved her in the first place or that I was cursing that love. Then I realized that true love means being able to let go when the other wishes it. We cry a while, we wonder and ask why, maybe get angry. But in the end we must realize that to love someone means to respect their personal freedom, even to do things we wish they would not do. So we wish them well and consign them to God and get about the business of forgetting. True love hurts. It never feels good to let go or forget. But that can be as much a part of true love as the wonderful feelings of togetherness and family and communion.

I know this is a hard thing but love is often difficult. I think the best way to deal with your concern is to do exactly what I have outlined above...forget about it. Don't allow that concern or feeling to become worry because worry will turn into sadness and sadness will lead, in that instance to suffering and that kind of suffering will rob you of your freedom as a child of God. Forget about it and leave it to Him who is able to do for us far more than we can think or ask.

Jason

I would just like to add some Scriptures to Jason's thoughts that have helped me. As a mom, I have been there too. I really think all moms face these thoughts at time. When that type of fear comes, they can be human nature, or sometimes remember it is not from the Lord. When the concern comes bring God's Word to mind and speak them. In fact I tell the Lord he loves us so much, that I am sure that it goes for my ancestors - since we can pray for them also.

Another part that seems distant yet is so close, is praying for their spouses or vocation, we have covered their spouces with prayer since our children were born. Our daughter who is 24, really never found anyone she cared to date, now this young man has come into her life - all of our lives - who seems to be everything that we could have prayed for her. The same was true for oldest son, he has a wonderful wife. We are still waiting and watching for our youngest, he just turned 23.

The point is, just covering everything in their lives with prayers and giving God's Word back to our Lord is so important for them. Even though they may no longer be at home, it is still up to us to 'cover' them against this world. Alas, they do have free will, but God is faithful and says that his Word will not return to him void.

Is 53:1-6
Who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? He grew up before Him like a tender shoot and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to Him. Nothing in His appearance that we should desire Him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and familiar with suffering like one from whom men hide their faces He was despised and we esteemed Him not. Surely He took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered Him stricken by God smitten by Him and afflicted. But He was pierced for our transgressions He was crushed for our iniquities the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed. We all like sheep have gone astray, each one of us has turned to His own way, and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteouness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Gen. 17:7 I will maintain my covenant with you and your descendants after you throughout the ages as an everlasting pact, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

To the fearful (and rightly fearful) parent what can we say?
Only this: that God loves your child infinitely more than you do
or than you can. That child is, after all, not your child, but His,whom He has allowed you to beget or to bear, and whom He has given to you as foster parents to love and to rear. And His
mercy endureth forever.

Edmac

AMEN!

Of the Ten Commandments
Deuteronomy 5:
10 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Thank you for your thoughts & wise words & Scripture too. Yes, I have to remember this... it is hard though. I think Jason (?)'s thoughts regarding emotions/ passions and how they can be disordered is true. I read a quote once, "a mother's job is to raise her children so that they can leave her."-- it is so true, but a hard one to swallow. Keeping God and His Word first and foremost in my mind is what is most important & everything else will fall into place if I do that. Thanks again.

This Scripture says it all for everything.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:8-11)

Jesus was asked the question about family in heaven and here is how he answered:

Matthew 22:24-32

24asking, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP CHILDREN FOR HIS BROTHER.'

25"Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother;

26so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh.

27"Last of all, the woman died.

28"In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her."

29But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.

30"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

31"But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:

32'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."