www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Fr. Francis of EWTN

I, for one, do not share the opinion that these are "credible" opinions or even worthy of debate. You are certainly allowed to believe as you will, but to think these ideas will receive a welcome an an Eastern Forum that takes joy in it's heritage is seriously misguided.

Jason

Is this "Eastern Rite affiliate of SSPX" in communion with Rome?

Terry

Yes, the thread should be closed.

Why in the world would an eastern rite church need an SSPX unit?

Joe

Nope - they are not

One should respect whose house he is in. I agree this thread should be closed. It is way off topic.

Just because you do not like the opinion of what someone quoted or believes regarding the priesthood is not a reason to close the thread. The idea of clerical celibacy is a volatile issue for all in the Catholic Churches, not just the Byzantine ones.

BUT the issue of this thread has not so much to do with the volatility of this issue, but a religious priest that is currently in a deep spiritual struggle with his priesthood on the line. We can focus on whether or not a married priesthood is appropriate, but this priest freely entered the religious life and priesthood vowing to God and his superior and bishop to maintain a life within his calling. Now this is the topic and what he is experiencing is an emotional and spiritual roller coaster that I would not wish on anyone. This is the focus of this thread. Even if marriage were allowed under the current system, because of his vows prior to ordination, this would not be an option still.

What this priest and the many faithful that have been touched by his ministry need are our prayers to the Almighty, that He can help direct this poor priest in his time of need. Our speculation may be for our own benefit, but surely it does not help this priest in his hour of need.

I have spoken with one of the moderators from this section already, and the demand is that this thread stays on topic and remains charitable. If posters can not, then maybe action needs to be taken individually since too many topics and threads are being closed due to the insensitivity and lack of charity of a few. Take this for what it is worth.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator

Fr. Anthony: Please realize I was not asking the thread to be closed because of personal feelings or differences of opinion, only because it strayed from its original intent. I believe my last comment made that clear.

Dear Anna,

Yours is not the only comment regarding that the thread be closed. I am just making clear the feelings of the moderator and the administrators in this matter. From here on out this thread will be directed to stay on topic and remain charitable. If a poster feels they can not, either they should not post or start another thread in the appropriate section.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator

If this was a married man taking "time off" to "discern his future" contemplating leaving his wife and children would we so philosophically mutter, "Invariably some people will leave their spouses and the married life. It is our hope and prayer that they can deal with the Church's wisdom on these matters." ???

Carole, priesthood and marriage are two different sacraments. And while leaving the married state is incompatible with being a Christian, leaving the priesthood is not (otherwise, the Church would not allow it). The priest does not marry the Church (certainly not in the sense that husband and wife marry each other). We need to stop thinking of priesthood and marriage analogously and as parallel sacraments. They are not.

Joe

I am so sick of hearing this justification.

He made promises to God and to the Church. Whether those promises are Sacramental in and of themselves is immaterial.

He should suck it up, live out his promises. Period.

It is the same advice that countless people are given.

I find very little practical difference between the two situations. The argument is one of semantics. The idea that you can go back on your word once given because you've found something "better" is pitiful and to actually do it is an act of cowardice. Courage is standing by your promises even when it costs you something.

Well, that's it. I'm not commenting anymore lest I say something imprudent.

Joe

I think that the fact that many of the men on this board are being compassionate towards Father Francis is a kind thing.

We should try to never be judgemental to a point that borders on intolerance and hatred, and I think that our men have demonstrated that they will not entertain such a mindset. (Hopefully the same mentality will be fairly displayed towards the weaknesses and indescretions of women as well )

On the other hand, I was thinking about this situation. Father Francis is a GREAT priest and he has offered MUCH to the Church, the Body of Christ, through EWTN. He has been a priest for 17 years. He made a commitment...not for a career (though there are some married priests in ethnic churches that have done that throughout history), but for the Holy Priesthood.

Today's world is one dominated by the LACK of commitment everywhere. Marriage is the hardest commitment around, and anyone who has been married for a while knows that, yet divorce is rampant because when times get tough, all too often one or the other spouse will leave because of all the usual selfish rationales:

1. the other didn't understand me and I met someone who does
2. I am not happy anymore
3. I am not in love anymore
4. I found someone who can offer me better that what I have, etc., etc., etc.

I think that what Carole is trying to point out is that a promise or commitment is just that, and that it is never a good thing or a good example to break them, especially in the Church and in the sacrament of Holy Orders.

I posted an excellent article written by an Orthodox priest on Town Hall a while ago called 'Let's get real about Priestly indescretions'. It was the first thing that came to my mind when I read about the scandal. Especially the part that said: "if you are counseling a woman and start finding yourself attracted to her, find her another priest to go to". I am reprinting the article because it is excellent, and addresses all the temptations which priests are succumbing to today.

My prayers are still with Father Francis that he will not give in to the temptation of breaking his holy commitment to the Priesthood and that he will find strength in this situation where many emotions of the heart are now involved. My prayers are also with those women who are so vulnerable that they would dare entertain the interests of a priest of the Church.

St. Nektarios, an unmarried bishop, once rebuked a nun because a letter she wrote him sounded like she was caring too much about him and not enough about Christ-- he said that it was his job to bring people closer to Christ, not to him...
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Let's Get Real About Priestly "Indiscretions"
Fr. Aris Metrakos

Aren't we disgusted with the shocking number of high-profile cases of priests engaged in pedophilia, homosexual activity, and adultery? Some excuse this behavior with the platitudes "a sin is a sin" and "we are all sinners." Uh, excuse me?

Persons who say "a sin is a sin" don't live in the real world. My wife is more than forgiving when I snap at her for no reason. I don't think that she would be that charitable if I were to come home smelling of another woman's perfume.

I concede that we are all sinners, but clergy relinquish the right to even think of engaging in certain classes of sin. When a priest sins sexually he damages the Church the way that crooked judges, lawyers, and police officers damage the legal system. How can anyone not understand this?

Looking back on my seminary years, nobody ever told me that I shouldn't put my hand on an altar boy's private parts, leave my wife for a man, or go to bed with someone other than my wife. Come to think of it, they didn't tell me not to eat yellow snow, either. The faculty assumed that we all knew better.

There's a saying about the word assume. If you don't know it, ask somebody who served in the military to explain it to you. So, rather than assume that seminarians and young clergy know right from wrong with regard to sexual matters, here are some essential rules of behavior for those preparing for and serving in the priesthood:

If you are delaying ordination until you find Miss Right, then be willing to wait for the appropriate woman to come into your life. Rushing into marriage with the wrong person is like voluntarily infecting yourself with an incurable illness. Ask any married person -- our spouse will either make us or break us. The priesthood poses enough difficulties without having the millstone of the wrong wife around your neck.

If you have sexual fantasies about anything other than a woman, get help. If these ideations persist, choose a different career.

If your heterosexual fantasies occupy as much of your time as they did when you were 15, see an experienced confessor. If you are married and have persistent sexual fantasies about anyone other than your wife, again, see the confessor.

If your marriage needs fixing, then go to counseling. If counseling doesn't work, you have three options: separation, divorce, or "gutting it out." Finding a mistress is not an acceptable alternative.

Appearances matter. Don't put yourself in situations where your integrity can be challenged. Don't stay in the same room with children when no other adults are present. Don't go swimming with anybody other than other clergy, and certainly not with minors. Don't meet repeatedly for one-on-one counseling sessions with the same person outside of normal office hours. Don't meet with a long-time female friend in a hotel room when you are together at a conference. Don't give rides to a woman or a child unless other people are in the car.

It's not too late until it's too late. If you are counseling a woman and you are attracted to her, send her to another priest. If you are about to walk into the bedroom of a person who is not your wife, walk away. If you are kissing someone other than your wife -- stop, and get on the phone with a priest-friend whom you can trust.
All sexual misconduct is unjustifiable. Some child abusers excuse themselves because they were victims of abuse. Yet plenty of adult survivors of molestations go on to have normal sex lives. Get help. And before you put your hand where it doesn't belong, remember how bad it felt when it was done to you.

And all sexual misconduct deserves the maximum penalty. When persons on the bench, in the bar, or with a badge undermine the legal system they get locked up for a long time; they are held to a higher standard. Priests who are pedophiles, homosexual predators, and adulterers need to be defrocked -- not only to send a message but to protect the Church and her members. Some of them need jail time too.

And why give a wolf in shepherd's clothing a second chance to ravage the flock? Maybe an adulterous pastor who had one occasion of adultery could be given a second -- and last -- chance, but only after plenty of counseling and a transfer to the other side of the continent. The rest need to be removed.

The second century priest-martyr Haralambos was dragged by his beard through the streets because he refused to deny Christ. In the 21st century, clerics drag the good name of the priesthood and the Church through the tabloids and the evening news. Sexual sin among the clergy must stop.

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Rev. Aris P. Metrakos is the pastor of Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Columbia, South Carolina. He is frequent retreat leader and speaker for both teens and adults. Prior to attending seminary, Fr. Aris was an aviator for the US Navy. He travels annually to Romania to help the Romanian Orthodox Church establish ministries for Romanian youth. You can contact Fr. Aris at FrMetrakos@orthodoxytoday.org.

Link: Orthodoxy Today

Yes and so should women. My wife left me, not the other way round.

Frankly Carole I am offended by your comments. It comes across as a woman with an EX to grind. If the Admin feels this should be deleted then fine. But I do NOT appreciate your comments.

Jason

Dear Jason,

I don't think that our personal lives and assumptions about other's personal lives should come into this topic.

Please, let's read people's messages for *what* they are trying to say, and not react to the *sound* of their message...please!!
This led to many hurt feelings last week that have still not been healed.

Let's stick to the topic please.

Alice, Moderator