www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West St. Josaphat

One of my favorite stories about St Josaphat involves the way he would deal with penitents. He would give them a rather harsh penance, and then inform them that it would be too difficult for them to carry out, and so he would perform the penance for them. Knowing that someone else would have to be paying for there sins, shamed many into a deeper sense of humility.

There was a St. Josaphat RC parish in Cleveland. It was closed a few years ago.

I've been past that one, it's beautiful on the outside. I'm sure the inside is nice as well. I have also noticed that most parishes named for Josaphat are Polish R.C. I believe there is both a UGCC and a Polish RCC here in Philadelphia named for him. It is interesting to me that no Rusyn parishes I can think are named for him.

I also read a thread the other day about an organization called the "Priestly Society of St. Josaphat". Very interesting reading that was when I searched for info about them.

I thought that this forum was supposed to be a place where people were charitable toward people of various eastern churches?

I do not appreciate the insulting of a canonized saint of the Catholic Church.

You would probably object to someone saying that Alexis Toth should be forgotten as well, for the sake of "ecumenism."

Since Catholics are not allowed to condemn Toth on this forum, don't insult our Catholic Saints!

Amen!

I'm going to jump in and suggest that the rhetoric be turned down here. The Church of Constantinople as well as the Church of Rome has sometimes made bad choices -- in my opinion-- in whom it has canonized. In the case of the EOC, I would suggest that canonization Of Czar Nicholas and Alexandra who died for political reasons and the same can be said about Constantine the Great. The latter had his wife Fausta smothered in a sauna, had his son put to death because--according to the sources- he had had an affair with Fausta, and was baptized by Eusebius of Nicomedia, an Arian. Joan of Arc was canonized in the first part of the 20th century; she heard voices. Some now attribute this to some mental disorder. The RCC made the founder of Opus Dei a saint. Go figure. Again this is my opinion. Some saints have shady backgrounds. Blame St. John of Wilkes-Barre's canonization on Bishop John English, a RCC bishop. Let's cool the rhetoric.

Yes a very interesting crowd from all I have read They are NOT popular with the UGCC Hierarchy having links with the Transalpine Redemptorists

Actually, yes I do think as an Orthodox Christian that Alex Toth should not have been canonized as a saint by the OCA. The OCA did this for the same reasons as the Roman Catholic Church in Poland promoted the canonization of Josaphat: to support an national interest. As Fr. Serge has mentioned above, read Prof. Himka's book for the background.

As for Alexis Toth: at the time he was canonized (well before the recent financial and other problems in the OCA), the OCA was promoting an ideology that their church would be a uniting force for all Orthodox jurisdictions in the USA. The OCA received autocephaly from the MP, then under communism. This autocephaly was not accepted by the rets of the Orthodox world. Canonizing Alexis Toth fit in with the OCA agenda at the time. (Just as an aside the Greek Orthodox Church was and is and continues to be the largest Orthodox jurisdiction in North America.)Unfortunately, because we are humans, there is always the possibility of promoting human agendas.

Research has been completed using sources in Rome, Europe and North America on Alexis Toth which presents a more balanced view of Toth than the OCA agenda. Sorry to be so verbose, but if the Orthodox and Catholics are to view each other as sister churches, there will have to be a re-examination of popular piety without emotionalism.

Thank you again for bringing up the issue of Alexis Toth because it is a similar problem but from the Orthodox side. You were right on the mark.

I have to disagree with a re-examination of certain saints mentioned in this thread.

Even if St Joan was mentally ill that does not prove she wasn't holy. I am not sure what your issue is with St Jose of Opus Dei. His group is more problematic than he was was.

Johnzonaras

You can't suggest that rhetoric be toned down and then raise the possibility that St Joan Of Arc suffered from a mental disorder.

St Josaphat and St Joan Of Arc are two of my favorite Saints, I'd rather give up ecumenism then give them up.

I am saddened to see that the mention of Saint Josaphat still causes such emotion against him.

I have had a devotion to him for many years. On the feast of the Dormition last August, I was blessed to pray before his incorrupt relics at Saint Peter's basilica

Saint Josaphat is clearly a victim of the old saying that a repeated lie left unchallenged is accepted as truth.

I strongly recommend everyone read the book, Saint Josaphat Kuntseych by Father Demetrius E. Wysochansky, OSBM.
It is the best researched book written in English on the saint.

Chapters included excerpts from materials gathered for his beatification process.
Among them include testimonies from Orthodox Christians who admitted persecuting Saint Josaphat and attest they never saw him say or do anything violent towards them.

It is historical fact that there were Orthodox Christians who venerated Saint Josaphat after his martyrdom.

The book also contains sections from Saint Josaphat's letters in response to Leo Saphia's accusations that Josaphat encouraged violence against Orthodox Christians.

Saint Josaphat, pray for Christian unity!

And I have to stick up for St. Josemaria Escriva, it was his intercession that produced a cure for my son.

From what I know of Joan of Arc, I would have to say that it is a real stretch to conclude that she was mentally ill simply because she heard voices.

Having said that, I would like to say that I have heard the argument numerous times that mental illness does not disqualify one from sanctity. I don't see this at all. A saint is called to love God with--among other things--his or her whole mind. In other words, I disagree with anyone who tries to characterize such saints as Philip Neri, Benedict Labre or Francis of Assisi (or Joan of Arc) as mentally ill.

Josemaria Escriva's beatification was, more than anything else, an endorsement of Opus Dei. This group was his life's work, and he cannot be divorced from it.

(BTW, I know very little about Opus Dei, but feel perfectly confident in saying that they're not at all like their portrayal in "The DaVinci Code.")


Peace,
Deacon Richard

I overlooked the mention of St Josemaria Escriva. I'm not trying to make a blanket statement here, but I've found that a high percentage of his opponents tend to hold extreme left wing ideas and also reject many of the church's traditional teachings. Furthermore, I have the highest regard for the priests I know who belong to the order of Opus Dei.